Andy Black is a huge douchebag.

Wow.
That's pretty bad.

No, the way it was described it wasn't an angle shoot. Getting caught bluffing, saying "you got it, etc.", your opponent shows, and you muck, is really pretty standard. His opponent (at least from what I read) never even asked to see his cards. If his opponent in the hand (the one who went to showdown with him) had asked JH to show first and JH made a big stink, then you guys would have a much better case against JH. As it played out, Woody Deck is a huge douche, and JH is just a tilt monkey with a bad temper. (I'm only taking into account this incident, as I have no clue about any other stories regarding JH.)

No, you can't. You will get kicked out of most any competition for doing so, competitor or spectator.

It's amazing how uninformed some people are.

If I feel I can gain an edge by doing something 100% within the rules, I reserve the right to do it. Why do you think online sites allow people to see other people's hole cards? Is it ONLY to discourage collusion? Or is it simply to expedite a standard rule?

and you better believe if someone strings I am calling it, unless the player is a gigantic donator, and I've played in some decent stakes games.

Dali is an angle shooting douchebag

From pokerlistings.com:

"The turn brought the Qs and the river the 10s both filling and doubling Wroblewski up. But before she opened her eyes, Joe Hachem let out a groan as if she'd been sucked out on. She popped up to find he was pulling her leg.

'I don't like you anymore,' she said, pulling in her newly found $80k stack. Meanwhile, Hachem is sitting on a whopping $165k."

Seems to me Joe is just an all around dick. I don't know him personally, but when I put together all I've heard/seen/read that's the impression I get.

Did you read this wrong? She won the pot, and he was joking around. It would have been bad/dickish if she was behind and he groaned to give her false hope and make her think she had sucked out to win the pot when in fact she had lost it.

Yeah, I can tell what happened. It's still a dick-ish move, what reason would he have to do this? Only thing I can think of is for his own amusement. I don't think Ana thought it was funny, even if she wasn't really serious in her response. He's just being the attention whore he always is.

all this could be avoided if people would just flip up their hands when they get called like theyre supposed to

concensus:

the internet blogger kid = douche bag
hachem = anushole

F LMAO

Link to EPT interview with Joey being nice !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZWOE...eature=related

LDO

Winner.

amirite?

Guys like Joe started playing in the illegal games after the footy and races in Melbourne with a crowd of Aussie mafioso types, outright thugs and semi pros, they all play the same way IMO (from experience). They are also used to aggressive types and give it back in spades when someone ignites their ire.

Unfortunately if you grew up downunder in the 1970s-1980s playing cards you will see their types ALL the time.

They will seek every little advantage to get your money and try every trick in the book. After doing this for so long I doubt if Joey, his bro, Tony G, Croc or the other Melbourne old line pros will ever change.

My experience is Joe will push the limits of what I consider old line ettiquette and then when things go awry the other way will let you know you are being an ass

(eg - I show hands sometimes when HU on the river prior to calling an all in to get a reaction from a player, most places allow this (in fact Bellagio is the only one who doesnt in cash games as far as I know).

Anyway I did this once at an aforementioned cash game in Melbourne in the early 1990s at a game after the races with some of the aformentioned characters and thought they would off me with their angry responses. Luckily they only weigh like $1.50 each wringing wet and guns arent allowed downunder !

well I agree with you under normal circumstances. The description of the hand didn't mention the subtleties before the winning hand was shown but someone in this thread said Joe was repeatably making efforts to not get his opponent to show out of order and the fact the kid called him an angle shooter leads me to believe this case was no different and a believe the other person's allegations against him to be true.

I halfway defended Joe's hard-luck antics in the MTTC thread as basically being an elaborate marketing technique, but it's strictly pathetic if he is really so emotionally attached to the cards and his version of poker etiquette and his own self-image that his behavior nears violence at the table. I can't think of very many, if any, times at a live poker table when someone has had to be restrained or even verbally quelled. It's totally inexcusable.

And here we have a frickin' world champion acting like a violent bully. So it's pretty obvious that Joe doesn't really give a **** about poker or about being an ambassador to it, also that he relishes a certain amount of chaos in the game and embodies a lack of self-restraint. That's the type of behavior that makes poker more unpleasant and unlikeable to amateurs and recreational players, but it's clear that Joe doesn't give a **** about that, either, as long as Pokerstars keeps the paychecks coming and he can still use poker/the poker media to stage his own personal pseudo-drama.

Meanwhile, of course it's very d-baggy of the guy not in the hand to ask to see Joe's hand, but it's so far out of line for Joe to react the way he did that the etiquette issue is obscured by Joe's behavior and irrelevant. Joe is also way out of touch with reality if he thinks he is entitled to make a bluff, get called and never get asked to see the hand (usually of course by the person who called).

i hear you but what if you just lost a ton of chips or busted and i not only pulled the dbag move of asking to see your cards but on top of it accused you of cheating


shane..... would you at that point rip my spine out and stab me with it?


i dont know JH or anybody involved but i would be mad as hell if i was called a cheater

i thought he was called an angle shooter?

dunno kinda the same thing imo

either one would rile me

Boo ****ing hoo. The guy (inaccurately and offhandedly) called Joe an "angle shooter" by the account in OP--that's about as generic and harmless as when someone says you "slowrolled" them when they felt you had an easy call. I hear a lot more odious, obnoxious crap during the course of a live tournament that that, and I am quite capable of biting my lip and behaving like a civilized human (not to mention like a professional poker player with a tiny fraction of Joe's success) no matter what people choose to say. Joe can't use words to correct the situation but instead resorts to violence and irrational emotional outbursts as a default reaction? Indefensible.

wow... i hate to speculate what that might be.


thanks for your reply

Right, BUT that isn't why Joe snapped. When somebody not in the hand asks to see your hand at showdown, I don't think it's douchey at all to say no, and then leave it up to the dealer. This is what Joe did and the dealer mucked. It's not like Joe turbo-mucked or ate his cards or something. Joe remained calm through that and started to get up to leave the table. The other guy then called Joe and angle shooter and and a-hole. If you lose a big pot, get asked to show your hand, give it to the dealer, the dealer mucks, and then get called an angleshooter/a-hole, I don't think it's all that terrible to flip out once in a blue moon. It's not like he flipped out just for being asked to show his hand!

I understand your point and still say Joe is way out of line and that violent outbursts are absolutely unacceptable at a poker table, even if the guy tells you he ****ed your wife last night. Also, I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but Joe is basically slowing up the game in the first place by not simply exposing his hand after getting called.