Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP - Page 7 - Poker News

This had its advantages because he never soft played me, I remember one pro who had an especially tight relationship with Guy having the nut flush on the river, making a small bet and Guy only calling with a K high flush because he didn't want to punish him - he said, you are my friend so I am just calling - The Pros face turned white.

Hm, somehow missed this the first time around.

I guess soft playing/colluding is only ok if you´re the one who´s doing it?

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05-09-2014 , 05:41 PM

#152

nba_guru

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 450

Quote:

Originally Posted by coltranedog

Having played in a lot of live games with Guy, especially when he first started playing poker, and also in private games (that Guy frequently organized) this is bull****. I probably played with Guy over 100x, never once did anyone in the game have a piece of my action, never did I have a piece of anyone else's action. There were cases of people swapping pieces with each other I'm sure, but never in a way that materially altered the way they played vs Guy or others.

This whole thing is a case of someone with an ego being embarrassed that he lost a fortune playing online poker and now attempting to save face. There is a reason why Guy changed his username frequently, and it wasn't so others didn't know who they were playing against, it was so the tracking sites would have a tougher job keeping track of how much he lost. (more on this).

I like Guy a lot. I have spent a decent amount of time with him both on and off the tables, the thing that I'll never take away was how prideful he was, I remember him showing us a check from the MGM/ Bellagio one day that was for 7 figures, he passed it around the table so we could all look at it.

This struck me as odd because the guy was basically the boss of all bosses - we get it buddy you are worth 1bn or 2, no need to show us a check. We know already, you're already mine and likely everyone else at the tables hero already.

Guy would also do things like sneak chips on the table to replenish his stack (quietly) so that nobody would notice how much he was down. At the end of the night, Guy was pretty much the only loser and yet he would always remark that he was "breaking even"

Thats just the type of guy Guy is, extremely prideful, he can't stand the notion that someone else could be better than him at something, even if he was just starting out and really had no business being a winner in those games, he wanted to win, expected to win and when he lost, he'd probably tell you that he broke even or was a small winner or loser.

I guess when you start out as a clown doing tricks for money on the street, that sense of insecurity never escapes you no matter how much money you have. It also would manifest itself numerous occasions when playing poker when he'd say stuff in a pot like - take your time I know this means a lot to you, its basically your whole life.

He said that to me in one hand when I was facing a 500k all in on the river - My response was, I know this may be a shock to you, but my life is probably a lot more interesting, and worth a lot more than 500k.

I was one of the rare ones that never kissed Guy's ass, I have a smart mouth and I would rib and make fun of Guy just as much as I would others in the game. Almost nobody did this but I felt like he'd respect that I didn't kiss his ass, he may have respected me, but he also resented me and really tried to beat / punish me more than others. I'm pretty sure I made a few jokes that really pissed him off in some way, but thats my nature, I am not changing that no matter who you are.

This had its advantages because he never soft played me, I remember one pro who had an especially tight relationship with Guy having the nut flush on the river, making a small bet and Guy only calling with a K high flush because he didn't want to punish him - he said, you are my friend so I am just calling - The Pros face turned white.

-
As for the online stuff, I do think that some guys were swapping pieces of each other, but the notion they were playing with imaginary money is absurd. FTP wasn't backing anyone. In addition, Guy basically was a huge loser the first week he started playing FTP, these guys weren't playing with imaginary limitless money, they were playing for the most part with Guy's money, and his opponents bankrolls kept on going up and up the more he played.

Guy never even really had any upswings when playing live or online, the gap between him and the players he was playing against was that big. Everyone who was railing at the time can verify this, he was drawing dead. End of story.

The only thing I can think of that may or may not have been somewhat unfair was that he has an issue with a particular online FTP Pro - This beef has translated to some live game stuff as well that happened 2 years ago around the time of the One Drop.

This player back when Guy was playing on FTP was the guy who basically funded all of Guy's FTP transactions, whenever Guy needed money, he'd text this Pro and the Pro would send him a transfer.

The Pro thus had the advantage in telling the other players he was friends with / maybe had pieces of to get online bc Guy texted him for online $$ and thus was about to play.

Maybe Guy mistook this for him playing with guys with imaginary "limitless" money, but that wasn't the case. They were playing with money that they by and large won off of Guy.

You maybe have forgotten but once uptown a time Durrrr was the best player on FT. His bankroll on FT pre islidur was booming. I know for a fact he used to fund Eli Elezras account in those days.

Last edited by nba_guru; 05-09-2014 at 05:42 PM. Reason: Quoted the wrong post, sorry Robert

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05-09-2014 , 05:44 PM

#153

The4thFilm

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 13,472

Quote:

Originally Posted by idlikeadrinkplease

You don't think Player X playing with funds being replenished carte blanche by Full Tilt against Guy who is putting up his own hard earned money that Player X is at a distinct advantage over Guy?

It is like I use play money against an opponent who is using real money. I will be at an advantage.

The pressure of high stakes with your own money isn't going to turn a world class player into a losing player against a fish. Period. Not even close. Guy is delusional.

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05-09-2014 , 07:02 PM

#154

Mad1Lee

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,830

What's "coltranedog" real name? A nice insight by him.

I think it at all looks like ego bull**** from Guy. When the gap between him and online sharks is that big, it's understandable that he felt like he was being cheated. I play NLHE mtts and if I somehow happen to enter on of the mixed nosebleeds online games, I would be torn apart pretty badly and it would feel like injustice too. Doesn't mean all the highstakes pros ganged up against me. They don't have to.

Also please someone tell him that his live tournament winnings do not reflect his poker skill in a slightest.

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05-09-2014 , 07:15 PM

#155

dalaxthedonk

old hand

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,974

Quote:

Originally Posted by mumpfmampf

I guess soft playing/colluding is only ok if you´re a massive fish whos donated like 40 million dollars to the poker community

FYP

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05-09-2014 , 07:16 PM

#156

dalaxthedonk

old hand

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,974

ColtraneDog= Haralabos Voulgaris

Quote

05-09-2014 , 08:29 PM

#157

random564

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 225

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbrownstone

Mystery FTP Pro is:

Maybe Benyamine, but doubtful since he was in debt to Antonius for big $$$ for most of his FTP career.

Could be Ivey, but he's too savvy (selfish) to alert other players about Guy logging on.

Same with Gus. Gus was (and still is) way too much of a loner to text other high stakes players about Guy's activities.

Doubtful it's E-Dog. I don't think he ever played that high.

Don't think it would be durrr. His bankroll was way to volatile to be a reliable source to provide transfers to Guy.

This really on leaves Antonious. And I'm not convinced it's him. Around 2007-2010 I don't think Patrick would be texting durrr, Galfond or the Dangs to alert them of Guy's online presence and to come get some.

good job in excluding everyone who it could possibly be

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05-09-2014 , 09:26 PM

#158

AdamSchwartz

Shippy McShiperson

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8,521

ITT lots of people use hindsight and project it on playing conditions way back when.

Also, just because FTP pros got xxx,xxx a month in their accounts, they somehow had an unfair advantage over Guy while actually playing the game. For the time that Guy was playing, IIRC, these pros could have cashed out this money. Guy also could have cashed out any money he won. In fact, even if Guy had played during the time when they were desperately short of money (which I don't think was the case), they would have moved mountains to pay him to save from being exposed as busto.

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05-09-2014 , 09:33 PM

#159

DaycareInferno

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 18,285

Sure, but if there wasn't anything shady going on, then how do you explain an intermediate player losing a lot of money after playing for years at the highest stakes versus the strongest players? It just doesn't add up...

Oh wait, yes it does lol.

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05-09-2014 , 09:52 PM

#160

hankypankyAA

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 333

I used to rail the high stakes plo games during that era and i always wondered how ANY of them won other than ivey, durr, and degengamine. Everytime the money went in gus and guy would be drawing near dead or slim with horrible hands like q572, or some garbage like that. I think if any of us had the money playing in those six max plo games we would have won, and im not kidding...

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05-09-2014 , 09:56 PM

#161

exit82

banned

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamSchwartz

Isn't hindsight exactly what you should project on the past?

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05-09-2014 , 11:19 PM

#162

kick2dante

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 6,799

Quote:

Originally Posted by coltranedog

ever stop to wonder why?

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05-09-2014 , 11:47 PM

#163

12bigworm81

adept

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,040

Read this article and tell me certain top pros weren't playing with borrowed money.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news...-tilt-millions

When they don't pay back for years that's pretty much a borrow until you win arrangement.

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05-10-2014 , 03:03 AM

#164

mumpfmampf

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,553

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamSchwartz

Didn´t Guy also play as Esvedra? Because if he did, he was part of that $1m session for Jeans89 post BF.

Americans were already shut out at that point, and Jeans89 said this increased his edge a lot.

Jeans also said it took them like 2-3 months to cash out that $1m, so chances are they were pretty much busto at that point in time.

Quote

05-10-2014 , 03:10 AM

#165

mumpfmampf

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,553

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbrownstone

Don't think it would be durrr. His bankroll was way to volatile to be a reliable source to provide transfers to Guy.

Thing is, when it comes to playing vs Guy, Durrr´s bankroll consisted of his own bankroll, Galfond´s Bankroll, Dang´s Bankroll (which was a shared bankroll from the get go). Same goes for Galfond and the Dangs obviously, considering how they continually swapped pieces, shared action etc. The only reason why durrr was able to piss away $6m vs Isildur was because he convinced Dang Inc. to join the action.

So yeah, it may or may not have been Durrr, but I don´t think your argument is valid.

Quote

05-10-2014 , 03:27 AM

#166

mme

old hand

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,668

i may be using hindsight to project it onto the past, but for me this raises the question if it is ok for a site to have a piece of the action.

Quote

05-10-2014 , 05:51 AM

#167

pepexed

banned

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by coltranedog

Guy would also do things like sneak chips on the table to replenish his stack (quietly) so that nobody would notice how much he was down. At the end of the night, Guy was pretty much the only loser and yet he would always remark that he was "breaking even"

Thats just the type of guy Guy is, extremely prideful

I guess when you start out as a clown doing tricks for money on the street, that sense of insecurity never escapes you no matter how much money you have.

you are really bad at reading people.
I think anybody, who watched Guy on TV only, knows more about him.

Quote

05-10-2014 , 06:26 AM

#168

VarianceMinefield

banned

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 57,722

Quote:

Originally Posted by coltranedog

Having played in a lot of live games with Guy, especially when he first started playing poker, and also in private games (that Guy frequently organized) this is bull****. I probably played with Guy over 100x, never once did anyone in the game have a piece of my action, never did I have a piece of anyone else's action. There were cases of people swapping pieces with each other I'm sure, but never in a way that materially altered the way they played vs Guy or others.

This whole thing is a case of someone with an ego being embarrassed that he lost a fortune playing online poker and now attempting to save face. There is a reason why Guy changed his username frequently, and it wasn't so others didn't know who they were playing against, it was so the tracking sites would have a tougher job keeping track of how much he lost. (more on this).

I like Guy a lot. I have spent a decent amount of time with him both on and off the tables, the thing that I'll never take away was how prideful he was, I remember him showing us a check from the MGM/ Bellagio one day that was for 7 figures, he passed it around the table so we could all look at it.

This struck me as odd because the guy was basically the boss of all bosses - we get it buddy you are worth 1bn or 2, no need to show us a check. We know already, you're already mine and likely everyone else at the tables hero already.

Guy would also do things like sneak chips on the table to replenish his stack (quietly) so that nobody would notice how much he was down. At the end of the night, Guy was pretty much the only loser and yet he would always remark that he was "breaking even"

Thats just the type of guy Guy is, extremely prideful, he can't stand the notion that someone else could be better than him at something, even if he was just starting out and really had no business being a winner in those games, he wanted to win, expected to win and when he lost, he'd probably tell you that he broke even or was a small winner or loser.

I guess when you start out as a clown doing tricks for money on the street, that sense of insecurity never escapes you no matter how much money you have. It also would manifest itself numerous occasions when playing poker when he'd say stuff in a pot like - take your time I know this means a lot to you, its basically your whole life.

He said that to me in one hand when I was facing a 500k all in on the river - My response was, I know this may be a shock to you, but my life is probably a lot more interesting, and worth a lot more than 500k.

I was one of the rare ones that never kissed Guy's ass, I have a smart mouth and I would rib and make fun of Guy just as much as I would others in the game. Almost nobody did this but I felt like he'd respect that I didn't kiss his ass, he may have respected me, but he also resented me and really tried to beat / punish me more than others. I'm pretty sure I made a few jokes that really pissed him off in some way, but thats my nature, I am not changing that no matter who you are.

This had its advantages because he never soft played me, I remember one pro who had an especially tight relationship with Guy having the nut flush on the river, making a small bet and Guy only calling with a K high flush because he didn't want to punish him - he said, you are my friend so I am just calling - The Pros face turned white.

-
As for the online stuff, I do think that some guys were swapping pieces of each other, but the notion they were playing with imaginary money is absurd. FTP wasn't backing anyone. In addition, Guy basically was a huge loser the first week he started playing FTP, these guys weren't playing with imaginary limitless money, they were playing for the most part with Guy's money, and his opponents bankrolls kept on going up and up the more he played.

Guy never even really had any upswings when playing live or online, the gap between him and the players he was playing against was that big. Everyone who was railing at the time can verify this, he was drawing dead. End of story.

The only thing I can think of that may or may not have been somewhat unfair was that he has an issue with a particular online FTP Pro - This beef has translated to some live game stuff as well that happened 2 years ago around the time of the One Drop.

This player back when Guy was playing on FTP was the guy who basically funded all of Guy's FTP transactions, whenever Guy needed money, he'd text this Pro and the Pro would send him a transfer.

The Pro thus had the advantage in telling the other players he was friends with / maybe had pieces of to get online bc Guy texted him for online $$ and thus was about to play.

Maybe Guy mistook this for him playing with guys with imaginary "limitless" money, but that wasn't the case. They were playing with money that they by and large won off of Guy.

yeah, really what people say about someone they like a lot. lolllll

Quote

05-10-2014 , 08:31 AM

#169

Masq

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 15,008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mme

i may be using hindsight to project it onto the past, but for me this raises the question if it is ok for a site to have a piece of the action.

Course it's not. It's also very questionable to have people who own the site/have a % of it to be playing on it. Especially when they're the biggest winner.

It reminds me of the Bobby Baldwin story where he was playing in his own casino and decided to stop playing as people may question the ethics if they saw him winning in the games.

Quote

05-10-2014 , 09:06 AM

#170

joe_seboks_luck

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 600

Quote:

Originally Posted by 20th Level Ranger

It's probably an unfair advantage if you got a bunch of your money by cheating the entire nation of Canada out of large amounts of tax revenue for your personal gain. I mean, we don't all have the opportunity to rob Canada for hundreds of millions of dollars, but we should just accept playing with people who do in such a way as to give them an advantage? No thanks. Will definitely Robin Hood their punk asses.

So, effectively what you're saying here is that he did get cheated, but that's OK because Guy's a bit of a scumbag and it's ok to rob scumbags.

Lots of players out there with more money and a skill advantage over me. I bet some of them didn't pay tax at the same rate as the average working man either. Perhaps I should be Robin Hooding *their* punk asses by kidnapping their families and demanding money for their return. I mean, as long as I don't actually kill any of them, it's just like a poker game in which they have to figure out whether I'm bluffing, right?

Quote

05-10-2014 , 09:25 AM

#171

mumpfmampf

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,553

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masq

So assuming Ivey did have some kind of edge on FTP, why would he continue now? I guess it´s all just a cover-up lol ...

Also lol @ mentioning Bobby Baldwin as an example regarding ethics. Back in the day, every poker pro was scum, at least judging by today´s standards.

Quote

05-10-2014 , 09:30 AM

#172

mumpfmampf

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,553

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_seboks_luck

Lesson No. 1 for the aspiring Poker pr ehh con man:

Pick "victims" who are con men themselves, one way or another, because those are the easiest guys to cheat.

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05-10-2014 , 10:42 AM

#173

moki

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,051

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

To people who think equity chopping is unethical without telling all players: if instead of equity chopping they all got backing deals, should they be required to inform the table of this too? What if one player was backing someone else who shipped them 7 figures should they be forced to disclose this as well since their bankroll/risk tolerance has changed as well?

I personally am about to graduate from college and am seeking fulltime employment. When I play games 10/25 and higher I'm probably not technically rolled and probably play on the nittier side than when I play 5/10. So if when I graduate I get a 6 figure job should I be forced to disclose this? The good regs who have played against under-rolled me will have an unfair advantage because they won't have as much fold equity as before right?

Seriously the whole line of thinking is bull****. No one has a right to know bankroll/affect of variance on a player. If they were splitting action/soft-playing then they were cheating. If ftp was not going to pay guy if he won then he was cheated. Absent of these two though he has no case. Equity chopping/backing deals don't have a negative impact on him unless he is trying to leverage information he has no right to in the first place anyway.

So much this.

Quote

05-10-2014 , 10:49 AM

#174

moki

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,051

Quote:

Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield

yeah, really what people say about someone they like a lot. lolllll

Straight-shooters who don't try to give you a reach-around when you're a billionaire are rare.

Quote

05-10-2014 , 12:18 PM

#175

brokeBluffer

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by 20th Level Ranger

Let's talk about that money for a second. Is it the same money he got by underpaying performers, fixing ticket prices, and getting involved in a tax avoidance scandal by way of artificially inflating the value of a trademark holding company he established in Luxembourg to get a lower tax rate than he did on the entities actually earning money in Canada and the US?

WAIT !!!!!!!

Doesnt google,apple ,facebook as many other corporatocracy institutions do the same ? and it's has been always ignored ?
They must be doing stuff in return.

to who ?

mmmmmm , something smells fishy

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