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Old 05-07-2014, 01:55 PM   #76
5=2+2
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

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Originally Posted by 12bigworm81 View Post
Actually they didn't. Against Beal they had to come up with real money to play him. Against Guy they had unlimited borrowed money. Meaning several players never put a dime of their money in. Just borrowed until they won.

Put it this way:
You and I play HU at my home game.
You put real money on the table, and I give you chips.
I don't bring any money, but take out enough chips to match your stack. I also invite a bunch of skilled friends to the game. They don't bring cash either, I just give them chips.
You beat a few of us. We just take out more chips.
We keep doing this until you eventually lose all your chips.
What you are saying isn't factoring in the huge difference in skill level and the fact that he wanted to play with them because they were so good, he specifically sought out the best players in the World. He was going to lose his money eitherway and it wasn't a case of keeping going until he lost all his chips by out gunning him with endless cash. He was out gunned by the superior play of his opponents... highly skilled opponents that he specifically sought out because he could afford to due to his own endless cash supply.
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Old 05-07-2014, 02:08 PM   #77
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

Guy's whining really reeks of entitlement. He figures just because he has $2.5 billion or whatever that he should always have the advantage in his social transactions with others. Boo-hoo that some guys figured out a way to not be overwhelmed by your money, Guy.

Let's talk about that money for a second. Is it the same money he got by underpaying performers, fixing ticket prices, and getting involved in a tax avoidance scandal by way of artificially inflating the value of a trademark holding company he established in Luxembourg to get a lower tax rate than he did on the entities actually earning money in Canada and the US? Yeah, seems totally legit. He definitely should be afforded every courtesy by his opponents and us.

It was basically all dirty money at Rail Heaven. Guy had his dirty money and was playing against the illusionary joint bankroll of a bunch of hustlers colluding against him on an offshore site that itself was overseen by a corrupt group and eventually got shut down by an even more corrupt group bowing to the pressure of even richer interests who had squirreled away even more money in tax-dodge schemes. I'm starting to sense a trend.

Got no love for any of these people.
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Old 05-07-2014, 02:19 PM   #78
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

@ Nohascards: Not at all offended Quite ironic though as I assure you I am okay for a dollar and have squandered plenty, hence I feel reasonably well positioned to comment on the actual benefits of money beyond a certain level.

@ 20th Level Ranger: Epic post. Amen, brother.
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Old 05-07-2014, 02:26 PM   #79
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

Just because FTP eventually went busto doesn't mean Guy was getting free rolled 5+ years ago.
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Old 05-07-2014, 04:02 PM   #80
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

So I guess at the time he thought he was playing against kids with a limited bankroll, and he a billionaire. What a scumbag.
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Old 05-07-2014, 04:58 PM   #81
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

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Originally Posted by moki View Post
To be realistic, however, he would have lost vs. these guys anyway. Sounds like something to blame his losses on other than himself.

probably the worst thing written in this thread.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:07 PM   #82
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I've got u crushed

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Originally Posted by StoopidMonki View Post
not the smartest guy in the room...why wait 5 yrs to realise uve been had.

also...who cares? losing 20million is the same for him as losin 10$ is to us...u dont complain about that 5 yrs later.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:10 PM   #83
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Did Guy play these games head up or at 6max tables? If he was at 6 max tables, then he very well may have been not only free rolled, but colluded against.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:16 PM   #84
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

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Originally Posted by Gabby Hayes View Post
He was playing with his real money. His opponents were playing with fake money and an unlimited supply of it. Seems like a legit gripe where they had an unfair edge over him.
Absolutely.

he definitely has a reason to talk about this
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:37 PM   #85
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

I remember the first time we had this thread where nobody had any idea what actually happened and everyone kept chiming in with their opinion and discussing everyone's opinion, but different people seemed to be operating under different fact patterns and in discussing it no one acknowledged that different people were giving opinions and discussing such under different assumptions of what actually occurred and often didn't seem to acknowledge that they did not know what actually happened.

I guess this time we have a quote from Guy Laliberte that has basically been rendered completely unintelligible by the translation and doesn't do anything to provide information on what actually happened (not that the French version actually does provide such information - maybe it doesn't, but I can't read the French version, so I don't know). Didn't have that the first time around.


(I see a link to the thread I refer to above has already been posted in this thread.)
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:41 PM   #86
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

Fact patterns ITT.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:51 PM   #87
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

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Originally Posted by hankypankyAA View Post
Regardless of how much money guy has, and it's substantial, it doesn't make what they did to him right. They equity chopped on high stakes poker, and they probably did the same and maybe even worse online. I see everyones excuse is "he would've lost anyway". Really? You sure about that because im pretty sure i'd take guy heads up against gus hansen in almost any game any day.

What happened to ivey online after full tilt. Most winning player ever, now can't win. Durr? Don't put anything past any of these scumbags.
Yea, and I remember the hand wit David Benyamine against Guy where Guy basically gave money back to Benyamine. Maybe Guy found out later about the equity sharing and confronted Full tilt players about it. If I don't remember wrong, Benyamine was removed from the Full tilt pro players shortly after this. It would be interesting to know some names behind this shadiness.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:19 PM   #88
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

He isn't saying he was colluded against. He is saying it is unfair because he was playing against players that got free buy-ins with imaginary company money.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:07 PM   #89
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

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Originally Posted by gutito21 View Post
Did Guy play these games head up or at 6max tables? If he was at 6 max tables, then he very well may have been not only free rolled, but colluded against.
Always at 6max. I don't recall seeing him play heads up.

It was pretty obvious that something was up the way certain players wouldn't play each other. This was nothing like Beal because he knew he was playing against a team.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:16 PM   #90
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

I would be pretty unhappy about it if I were him. Lots of implicit collusion at the very best between people who shared pieces of each other. I would always find it kind of funny when you'd see a 400k pot between two friends where one would just ship it on the flop with a naked flush draw in a single raised pot when you know without a question these guys chat daily on Skype if not intersession.

It basically became they were putting on a show for one person who made his living producing shows.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:24 PM   #91
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

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Originally Posted by 20th Level Ranger View Post
Guy's whining really reeks of entitlement. He figures just because he has $2.5 billion or whatever that he should always have the advantage in his social transactions with others. Boo-hoo that some guys figured out a way to not be overwhelmed by your money, Guy.

Let's talk about that money for a second. Is it the same money he got by underpaying performers, fixing ticket prices, and getting involved in a tax avoidance scandal by way of artificially inflating the value of a trademark holding company he established in Luxembourg to get a lower tax rate than he did on the entities actually earning money in Canada and the US? Yeah, seems totally legit. He definitely should be afforded every courtesy by his opponents and us.

It was basically all dirty money at Rail Heaven. Guy had his dirty money and was playing against the illusionary joint bankroll of a bunch of hustlers colluding against him on an offshore site that itself was overseen by a corrupt group and eventually got shut down by an even more corrupt group bowing to the pressure of even richer interests who had squirreled away even more money in tax-dodge schemes. I'm starting to sense a trend.

Got no love for any of these people.
very nice post!
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:20 PM   #92
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20th Level Ranger View Post
Guy's whining really reeks of entitlement. He figures just because he has $2.5 billion or whatever that he should always have the advantage in his social transactions with others. Boo-hoo that some guys figured out a way to not be overwhelmed by your money, Guy.

Let's talk about that money for a second. Is it the same money he got by underpaying performers, fixing ticket prices, and getting involved in a tax avoidance scandal by way of artificially inflating the value of a trademark holding company he established in Luxembourg to get a lower tax rate than he did on the entities actually earning money in Canada and the US? Yeah, seems totally legit. He definitely should be afforded every courtesy by his opponents and us.

It was basically all dirty money at Rail Heaven. Guy had his dirty money and was playing against the illusionary joint bankroll of a bunch of hustlers colluding against him on an offshore site that itself was overseen by a corrupt group and eventually got shut down by an even more corrupt group bowing to the pressure of even richer interests who had squirreled away even more money in tax-dodge schemes. I'm starting to sense a trend.

Got no love for any of these people.
was siding with guy until I read this post......
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:33 PM   #93
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

Is he upset with non red pros too?
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:09 PM   #94
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

I'd have a problem with the equity chopping if that was going on .. But if the pros lost the money they borrowed they would have to pay it back right? I don't see that as necessarily being cheating but I understand his problem with it.
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:42 PM   #95
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Its a good post but whats with the "fixing prices" bit?

Underpaying performers is debatable and getting accountants help keep taxs low is also pretty standard for any business
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:16 AM   #96
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

I think it must not of been an accurate representation of what he meant. He just sounds foolish.
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:43 AM   #97
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

I don't even think any of the big red pros were consistently taking money off guy at that time right. Wasn't the bulk all online guys like durrr dangz galfond? Ivey and Hansen never really clashed with guy
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:56 AM   #98
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

I'm French and I just read Guy's original interview in Le Journal De Montréal.

He's definitely talking about collusion. He's light on details but explains that a couple of FTP players didn't use 'real' money-in a sense where all their buy-ins were virtual - when playing against him.

This access to unlimited funds allowed them to constantly pushed the action against him. He was basically facing all-in decisions all the time.

Collusion is on his mind when he says "ils se mettaient à deux, trois" meaning 2 to 3 players were playing together to push the action up and force all-ins. Typical squeeze with multi-raises.

Later on the story, after mentioning his new super rare Ferrari, the journalist asked him what was his most craziest expense.

Guy didn't mention his trip in space but ONLINE poker. Then - a special note for the haters - he says that he doesn't care about the money he lost but he cares about the fact that he was " bent over" by a couple of pros and was the one providing the lube.

Hope it helps...
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:05 AM   #99
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

^^

Yah pretty much everyone that has commented after page 2 without reading anything beforehand is an idiot...
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:54 AM   #100
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Re: Guy Laliberte says he got ripped off on FTP

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Originally Posted by twooopair View Post
Guy didn't mention his trip in space but ONLINE poker. Then - a special note for the haters - he says that he doesn't care about the money he lost but he cares about the fact that he was " bent over" by a couple of pros and was the one providing the lube.
Yeah that's what I'm saying. He's mad. There's never been a billionaire ever who was cool with losing money, especially not in a way where he perceives he was taken advantage of. A billionaire figures he should always have the upper-hand because he's so much richer than everyone. Not this time, and it stings.
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