I saw this on 3betpanda 's Instagram over the weekend. Some d-bag shoved all-in blind at the Wynn, tossed $100 onto the felt, and when he was snap-called he reneged...



Wynn apparently can't force him to pay. What in the hell?

Afaik, this is the rule in every casino. They can only collect what’s over the line, they cannot take money from your stack. Obviously, they should’ve made him push the chips over the line first. Not much they can do after the fact, except kick him out and keep the $100 in the pot.

It was probably just a joke-bet, relax Bros.
You can either take his joke, or take his money, it's your call

Did the casino at least acknowledge that he is obligated to pay and 86 him until he does pay up?

seems like an awful policy, what so if the river comes a 2, you gotta pay the douchebag angler? terrible.

So basically the dealer messed up and now a player got screwed over. Nice.

... and, assuming the facts are as stated, make the caller whole for the entire call.

Listen, the casino is running the game, they can and should be liable when someone breaks the rules in the game they are running.... There is a good argument they can be held to account by Gaming.

After all, the casino affirmatively said the guy was "all-in".

Why allow him to cash out ? He is not entitled to those chips, even though he may possess them at that moment. Call the onsite Gaming rep. (Would they have paid him even more if he had swiped some from a blackjack table on the wy to the cage ?)

It should not even be close actually, .... also reach into your own pocket and make the game fair for the caller, Do not enable cheating or put the risk on the caller.

Seriously, pay up, for $1300 don't try and seize the chips from the cheater, 86 the cheater, and nominate him for barring from other casinos.

How so? This happens all the time...

A player verbalizes "all-in," but only throws in one chip. The dealer tosses out the all-in button and settles up the chips when the hand is won. It's not often that dealers force a player's all-in bet into the middle before action can proceed. Although that will probably be casino policy moving forward.

Why you always make him push his stack in.

Almost never happens. But will probably be poker room policy after this.

Yeah it's the rule in all casinos I believe that you can't actually make the other player pay you if they refuse to. Absolute madness and needs to be changed ASAP.

Where does the casino draw the line for not making people pay?

If you push your chips forward but they don't get mixed into the pot and you take them back, is that unenforceable?

What if you grab chips from the pot and take them? Is that unenforceable?

What if you grab chips off of someone else's stack and take them? Is that unenforceable?

In a perfect world they could escort him out and force him to leave his chips but in some fked up way it probably opens them up to a lawsuit or controversy that they do not want to be involved in

(Although obviously looks bad if someone doesn't get paid and the scammer gets to take his $ and go to another casino in the city)

Going all-in or calling an all-in bet by verbalizing your action and putting as little as one chip in the pot is standard in the Bellagio's games.

The dealers use "all-in" and "call" plaques to make the action clear.

Imagine having the audacity to just walk away from the table and cash out after pulling this stunt.

Also how the **** can that be the rule? If you took your chips back in a blackjack hand after losing I imagine the casino would have more enforcement over the issue, which sums them up nicely.

Edit: I know it's slightly different but just baffles me how they don't give a ****.

I saw this once before when I used to play 1/2 back in 2009 at the hard rock. A guy lost an all-in and refused to pay the $300 or 400 or whatever. The table was broken up, security guards came, hassled him for 30-60 minutes or whatever, banned him from the property, but he didn't lose a single cent in the end. Apparently the casino can't force anything legally speaking since it's each players' own money. They can only enforce table bets (pit games). Or so the dealers told me.

I've seen it happen at an Indian Casino up here around 2008. Same story, guy pushes another guy calls, dealer runs out the board, the guy who calls turns over the winner, the guy who pushed didn't pay.

Security harassed him, but he just stood there til they 86ed him.

There is no chance I would let the guy leave if it was me who won the hand.

What would the casino do if I walked over grabbed his chips and put them across the line. Sure he could try and take me to court but is he really going to bother?

So much scumbaggery in poker its no wonder your average fish no longer wants to play

The latest point where you are forced to let that guy leave is when you are handcuffed in the back of a police car and he’s waving at you after cashing out.

Would it be overly difficult for poker rooms to add some of the same restrictions to cash chips as they do tournament chips? I’d assume not but the casino probably doesn’t want to constantly be the arbiter for money decisions they aren’t directly profiting from (Which is laughable since that should be one of their primary responsibilities).

I'm confused by this apparent 'policy' that I didn't realize existed. It's common for someone last to act to call a river bet by tossing one chip over the line. Does this mean that they're not obligated to pay the remainder if they lose, and can walk away?

I am fairly sure that in Nevada, at least, verbal bets are not legally binding. This comes from the days when people would literally run up to the craps table hollering "$25 on hard six" and the casino would take the bet, presumably from known reliable players and/or already had the chips on the rail, etc. At some point, the GCB put a stop to that.

So the bottom line is that the rule/law as it's written is 180 degrees out of phase with what is absolutely enmeshed in poker DNA - that verbal bets are binding.

I had a first hand experience with this and wrote about it in the PokerStars blog. A postscript to that story is that the cardroom manager (who knows his sh*t) later told me that he cannot legally force the person to surrender their chips. What he does (i.e. not his first time around this block) is make the other player whole from his own budget, and then tell the offender that they're not playing in the room again until the offender makes the room whole.

I have lost track of the number of times I've asked dealers to have players push chips across the line ("I call", no chips move) or push an entire stack rather than the stupid little one chip call. The dealers always look at me askance, "He said he called" "It's clear he's calling." I have even tried the "Ya, but the cameras can't see a verbal call" line, again without success. Perhaps now they'll understand better if somebody makes a scene about it.

I honestly don't know if it matters if the chips move across the line, but I'm pretty sure that if you try to grab chips out of a mixed pot in the middle of the table, you're leaving in handcuffs. It's a weird, invisible legal line, and I guess we gotta start enforcing it, which sucks.

Regards, Lee

+1 '

Any customer minded ethical casino would make up the difference in this situation. Sadly that is not always the case as some staff will take a short term view and not consider that potential long term impact.

At a minimum this particular angle shot should never occur again in that poker room without (unfortunately) employee's being severely disciplined

The few times this has happened to me in a live game and I planned on calling, I asked the dealer for an exact count before calling. This always make it clear to everyone what the bet was and puts the money physically in the pot.

All of these stories are very similar:

1) player announces a bet or an all in
2) Another player calls
3) Single chips or all in markers get put into the pot rather than entire stacks
4) Losing player walks off with chips that are still in front of them, but never chips from the pot

Jamie Gold has it right in this clip, if you make a bet, put the money in the pot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-dvWRrFlKE&t=7m35s

I doubt there are more than 10 poker rooms in the world that would cover the difference.