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Old 03-24-2019, 08:51 PM   #51
wj94
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
So, you relied upon a clearly stated rule of the game, and your villain violated the rule ?

Did you seek enforcement from Gaming against the Casino refusing to uphold its stated rule of the game ?

What was the outcome if you did ?
I never contacted gaming because I didn't care that much about the $400. If it was $4,000 sure I'd give it a shot. Nothing I can do about it now though.
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:49 PM   #52
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Old 03-24-2019, 11:22 PM   #53
Gzesh
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
I never contacted gaming because I didn't care that much about the $400. If it was $4,000 sure I'd give it a shot. Nothing I can do about it now though.
Fair enough....

Last edited by Gzesh; 03-24-2019 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:41 PM   #54
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by BartHanson View Post
calling by throwing 1 chip in the middle is arrogant? what?
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:42 PM   #55
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by BartHanson View Post
Well, you also have to take into consideration how dealers are instructed to handle all-ins. As a dealer of 10 years, every room I have worked for has always wanted us to just run the board(s) out first and then get the chips after, unless there are side pots involved.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:40 AM   #56
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by NuklearWinter View Post
Jamie Gold has it right in this clip, if you make a bet, put the money in the pot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-dvWRrFlKE&t=7m35s
Interesting. I remember seeing that hand, but I also remember thinking, "Jamie's just trying to get a read." (Looking back, it's a funny notion, given that Gold is probably incapable of getting a read from Hellmuth in that spot.)

Now it makes more sense: Jamie has played enough in L.A. card rooms to know that you make the opponent put money in before making your action. I can't imagine how many times he has been angled.

As someone who is still somewhat inexperienced at the live game, reading this thread is a good lesson. I would have been wide open to such an angle shot. The player's declaration, the dealer's issuing an All-in button, the other player's call (and moving chips in) -- I would have thought all of those constituted a call.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:11 AM   #57
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

It seems like thereís a way to make free money here

Just go get $ and buy into your local 5-10 game

Shove every hand and hope you win whatever one is called.

If you lose, donít pay and get cashed out. Hit up the next casino.

Easy game.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:57 PM   #58
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by numberonedonk View Post
Basically you're trying to act smarter than the rest of us (which you usually try but fail) but you don't actually have much real world first hand experience with these kinds of issues while we do.

You keep making my post in the "what makes you cringe" thread more valid every time you post.
Did you run this personality type by a registered Psychiatrist to make sure your diagnosis is correct? If so what was the outcome?
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:28 PM   #59
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

I saw this happen in a major casino just last weekend. Casino didn't (couldn't?) force the guy to pay, 86'd him but let him walk out with $450 chips. Guy who won the hand was insanely chill about it.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:07 PM   #60
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by Carl Trooper View Post
It seems like there’s a way to make free money here

Just go get $ and buy into your local 5-10 game

Shove every hand and hope you win whatever one is called.

If you lose, don’t pay and get cashed out. Hit up the next casino.

Easy game.
Yeah i mean theres so many poker rooms now in the US, couldnt you just travel the country playing 2/5 or 5/10NL and every time you lost a massive one you could just leave, especially if its in the midwest or somewhere you will likely never return to in your LIFETIME?

what a terrible system, even tho its insanely unlikely people do this.

they could in theory do it.... 5 different times in 1 year in vegas. or 1 year maybe you hit up 5 different midwest casinos. maybe the 3rd year you hit up the east coast and hit those large # of rooms. then maybe you go to florida 4th year and hit up 5 casinos there. then go to west coast LA for a few more cardrooms the 5th year.

Sure they couldnt do it again, but in 1 summer they could change $10k in potential losses into 0 losses if you play big enough it could even be MORE.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:38 PM   #61
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

There aren't that many rooms that spread 5/10. And some rooms are connected like MGM rooms, Caesar's rooms, etc. so I assume if you get banned from one you get banned from all of them? Let's say you can freeroll for $500 per room that spreads 2/5 and $1000 per room that spreads 5/10.

Seems like a lot of work for a mediocre amount of money.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:47 PM   #62
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

i assumed you wouldnt fire your non payout pot until it was a massive one you lost. like 300-500BB+

arnt a lot of cardrooms in california not linked to big chains? like lots of smaller independent rooms?

Quote:
Seems like a lot of work for a mediocre amount of money.
also you underestimate degenerates. thats like literally their callsign
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:19 PM   #63
Dominic
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

I've never heard of this Guy Jams dude
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:03 AM   #64
ty4thDime$
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by Xenoblade View Post
calling by throwing 1 chip in the middle is arrogant? what?
Yep, 100%.
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:51 AM   #65
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by NuklearWinter View Post

Jamie Gold has it right in this clip, if you make a bet, put the money in the pot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-dvWRrFlKE&t=7m35s
An interesting part of this is actually how quickly DNegs agrees that Jaime is fully in the right. To me it seems like Negreanu definitely has seen the angle in the OP multiple times in lives games, due to how quickly he agrees that Gold is perfectly in the right here
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:20 AM   #66
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by WateryBoil View Post
Yeah i mean theres so many poker rooms now in the US, couldnt you just travel the country playing 2/5 or 5/10NL and every time you lost a massive one you could just leave, especially if its in the midwest or somewhere you will likely never return to in your LIFETIME?

what a terrible system, even tho its insanely unlikely people do this.

they could in theory do it.... 5 different times in 1 year in vegas. or 1 year maybe you hit up 5 different midwest casinos. maybe the 3rd year you hit up the east coast and hit those large # of rooms. then maybe you go to florida 4th year and hit up 5 casinos there. then go to west coast LA for a few more cardrooms the 5th year.

Sure they couldnt do it again, but in 1 summer they could change $10k in potential losses into 0 losses if you play big enough it could even be MORE.
This will work every time but once! The one time it doesn't work could land the villain in the hospital or the morgue. I know that if someone pulled this move on me, they would never make it to the cage with their chips intact. I will deal with the cops and security later. But at that moment there will be Hell to pay!
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:34 AM   #67
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by Toupee Jay View Post
This will work every time but once! The one time it doesn't work could land the villain in the hospital or the morgue. I know that if someone pulled this move on me, they would never make it to the cage with their chips intact. I will deal with the cops and security later. But at that moment there will be Hell to pay!
I think if you stood up and yelled at Security, "He's stealing my chips, don't let him get away", and whipped out your phone to call 911, they would be unlikely to let him cash out.

A non-physical escalation should suffice.
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:43 AM   #68
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
An interesting part of this is actually how quickly DNegs agrees that Jaime is fully in the right. To me it seems like Negreanu definitely has seen the angle in the OP multiple times in lives games, due to how quickly he agrees that Gold is perfectly in the right here
I have watched Jamie play on Live at the Bike a few times recently and he is not as bad as people on 2+2 think. He has pretty good instincts and I've been impressed with his cash game play lately.
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:58 AM   #69
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

I saw the same thing happen at the Bellagio, was either a $5/10 or $10/20 NLHE game (can't remember now), maybe around 10 years ago. Guy refused to pay, casino 86'ed him and he walked off with his money.
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:11 AM   #70
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by CupOfSalt View Post
Well, you also have to take into consideration how dealers are instructed to handle all-ins. As a dealer of 10 years, every room I have worked for has always wanted us to just run the board(s) out first and then get the chips after, unless there are side pots involved.
This is the common sense approach. It's tilting af when there are two players all-in, and they sit there counting exactly before the board runs out when one of the players obviously covers.
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Old 03-26-2019, 01:02 PM   #71
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Trooper View Post
It seems like thereís a way to make free money here

Just go get $ and buy into your local 5-10 game

Shove every hand and hope you win whatever one is called.

If you lose, donít pay and get cashed out. Hit up the next casino.

Easy game.
I got you beat. I'm going to recruit homeless people to do this for me on a large scale. Pay them 1 crack rock if they lose 2 if they win. 1k buy-ins double or break even.
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Old 03-26-2019, 03:33 PM   #72
zizek
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Trooper View Post
It seems like thereís a way to make free money here

Just go get $ and buy into your local 5-10 game

Shove every hand and hope you win whatever one is called.

If you lose, donít pay and get cashed out. Hit up the next casino.

Easy game.
I mean, this is basically what people did with ghost deposits on Full Tilt.
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Old 03-26-2019, 04:03 PM   #73
Wilbury Twist
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
An interesting part of this is actually how quickly DNegs agrees that Jaime is fully in the right. To me it seems like Negreanu definitely has seen the angle in the OP multiple times in lives games, due to how quickly he agrees that Gold is perfectly in the right here
Yeah, exactly this. When I first saw this clip, I didn't understand why Negreanu was so adamant about it. But then, I had not played a hand of B&M poker in my life at that point. Now it makes perfect sense.

And again, Gold clearly knew to insist that his opponent put his chips in, even though it was quite unlikely Hellmuth would pull such a stunt in that situation. Such an interesting video to me now that I know that this is such a common angle.
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Old 03-26-2019, 04:34 PM   #74
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

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Originally Posted by Masq View Post
So there's the angle on river that Player A says they're all in. Player B says 'call' without moving their chips. Player A flips over their hand.

If A's hand is good, B says the chips didn't move and isn't paying. If B's hand is good they get the pot shipped to them.
and then player B gets 86d, it's a one time angle that will get you villafied by the community and barred from that casino
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Old 03-26-2019, 07:35 PM   #75
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Re: Guy Jams, Reneges on His Bet [March 2019]

quick take: I think if the casino can't be responsible enough by actually running the game to get people to put chips in the middle, then they should be paying out bets when players want to leave with their chips without paying off their bets...
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