Having those people play poker in your casino increases your chances of them doing other things in your casino, too.

The lure of poker began because anyone could play with anyone (i.e. Joe Schmoe could play with Phil Ivey) if they had the money to buy into said game. Anything that deters from that is bad for poker imo.

The flaw in your logic is that you believe that if the private game was not available, those high stakes recs would just sit in any old 25/50ish game that was available. That is likely not the case, so by forcing these lists public, you're the one damaging the game by killing the private game, with no corresponding new public game.

What you're missing is that part of the reason the room is busy is that many low stakes players come there just because "that's where the big game is held", hoping to glimpse one of the big stars. Last time I was there visiting, I caught pictures with both JRB and Bobby Baldwin, and neither could have been nicer or more accomodating. Those same rec players don't care one bit whether random pro is playing or not.

You can say this, but they don't invite you. Whatever it is that these high stakes recs want, you're not providing it.

This is a fine argument and I completely agree that it's silly to have 100 players waiting around while a table is sitting empty. Doesn't have anything to do with the private nature of these games though.

Legitimate congrats, keep it up.

FWIW this system takes place in sfla as well and while I totally, TOTALLY get where Greg is coming from, Punker nails it, imo.

Greg, it sucks, it really does. You're a chill bro and I'd love to have you in my game. But these dudes have cornered the market in a grey area and many of these games only exist for that reason.

It sucks not being a part of the cool club and much more goes into it than being "sociable" (FFS I rage tilt when people say this on forums not realizing how lucky they are to have ended up in the club, or more likely, having no idea what they are talking about)

The best way to describe it is a fraternity, where when you are on the outside it looks like a bunch of idiots paying to have friends who secretly want to blow each other, but once you're a member it's ride or die and lol at the peons not in your fraternity.

I don't hold ill will towards these guys. If they want to keep an inner circle and whales are cool with that (whales are 100% aware of what's happening) then more power to them.

The private table at a restaurant is sort of a bad analogy unless you include the details that you were the first person at the restaurant with a no reservation policy and yet they seat the full group of 10 ahead of you while saying there are currently no seats available. They then proceed to seat people who had fantom reservations (when there is a strict no reservation policy) ahead of you for the next 10 hours. Then the restaurant closes.

That's still a sh***y analogy but is closer to the truth than the comparisons I've read so far.

Sure you can call out the restaurant on yelp and you can question the legality of preferred treatment of groups of people over yourself etc etc., but in the end you just suck it up and don't go to the restaurant, no matter how good the fish is.

in a vacuum yes. in reality rich degenerate poker players tend to wander into the pit.

What greg is missing is the higher games from 2007 almost completely dried up bc the bad players kept losing and got sick of it. There are also many cases where they were sick of how other players treated them. They want to play with a small group of people.Some 300-600 nl game is not in anyway affecting 1/2 nl. People aren't saying "**** i can't get int his 300-600 game I better play 5/10 nl" that's absurd.

It's not like when if 5/10 dries up those people drop down to 2/5. It's a completely different scenario.

If the super rich donks can't play with who they want they just won't play. Making the game public doesn't solve the non existent problem Greg mentioned.2007 is an eternity ago in poker.

As for fairness- lots of things aren't fair in poker. For example why should some miserable to be around time wasting player who treats other players badly have the same access to games as those who make the games fun and enjoyable? There's nothing fair about that.

Greg- you may say you are pleasant at the table but you still don't get invited to these games which speaks volumes. If anything being a main event champ should help open that door.So while you may be pleasant you still aren't someone the whales enjoy playing with.

It's really not as simple as that Borg. It's a fraternity, as I said. A bunch of organized fools are far more powerful than one smart charismatic individual, and getting in their clique takes alot more than being nice, entertaining and/or spewing occasionally.

These guys want you to get on your knees, unzip their pants, and go to town, while simultaneously handing over your first born.

One of the most entertaining / spewy / winningest players I've ever played with cannot get into most of the semi-private games down here. Nicest kid you've ever met. Would have folks cracking up at a funeral. But he wins, and he wins alot. He has no whales to add to the game. And he has no connections to the fraternity. And that's enough to keep him out of the circle.

FWIW I have access to some of these games, and I have a terrible personality. I just happen to be good friends with one of the frat guys, and that is enough. I obv don't have the bankroll to play, which is likely another reason.

The frat has so much power because of their close relationships with the whales.

Whale: "hey isn't that the main event champ? It would be cool to win a pot off him"
Frat guy 1: "nah he's a nit"
Frat guy 2: "yea no good for the game hes too slow"
Frat guy 3: "yea he's really rude too"
Frat guy 4: "I heard he kills baby seals just to relieve stress"

And just like that, the idea of ever playing with Greg fades from the whale's memory.

Also lol at how I spelled phantom.

Okay that makes a bit sense. I don't have anything against private games if they actually act like private games, i.e. 10 guys show up and want to play together, and if Greg was there before them and said to the floor he wants to play highest game that runs today he gets passed over. And if you're first in line, people leave and they decide to not have any more players I think that's fine aswell.

But if they are actively trying to recruit recs from other tables, or find a way to get whale into a game when you've been waiting for hours, that's pretty ****ty. If you're #1 in waiting list and whale is #2, doing something like Sklansky's "DUCY" flip to remove 2 regulars from the table, or don't get the whale in the game today. How often does someone like Greg gets to play anyway when he never gets the call when they start?

Although if I were in JRB-s shoes and could get away with it, I would do it too.

JRB (and others now running private games in Vegas) have actively poached the biggest rec players out of bellagio and aria. Obviously the rec player will have a better chance of winning in mostly rec games, but to say it wouldn't affect the 25/50 climate is not true. Most games nowadays 25/50+ in vegas revolve around 1 rec, and when regs get his number to invite him to private games, it kills the chance of a bigger public game happening for all the other regs.

Nice problem to have. Lets be honest this just seems like a game that people are enjoying and hitting the aquarium to ruin it doesn't seem cool.

This is bull****! You are a smart guy. I read your posts and you generally have great points, but about this issue, you couldn't be more wrong!

Its not the whales- determining the lineups in these private games! If thats the case, I would be fine with it.

Its the greedy ****ing pros who try and HOARD the whales all to themselves.

Yes! Poach is the word!

These whales aren't stupid. If they weren't having fun with JRB for example he wouldn't get to play with them again.

Yes the pros are hoarding them but that can't happen if the whales don't enjoy playing with them.If some rich donk said let merson in the game he's in no questions asked.

Good points and I agree

My main issue is that there should not be private games in a public casino. If game organizers want to get whales numbers and invite them to home games, than that's totally fine by me. But when I see a listed public game that I cant play, its just not right. Especially when the game has been set up to benefit greedy pros. If the game happened to be an all recreational and no pros allowed, once again, I would be completely fine with it.

I do think several good points have been made in this thread

1) Rich whales like to play with other rich guys and to a lesser extent social pros. There's no denying that private games are much more fun that public games and its really not close

2) If every pro was allowed to play in these private games, these private games wouldn't be as good as they are now

3) Private games are great when you are part of the in crowd- but from as an outsider- its totally reasonable to see how scummy and unjust the system is

4) Private games have a major negative effect on the poker eco system as a whole if you arent a part of the in crowd

I guess my advice would be for Greg to form his own game if hes unhappy with the current system. Theres nothing stopping him from doing this. Private games in public casinos are defffff unfair but thats just the way it works- not only in the biggest games at Aria- but also in 5/10+ across the country

Wasting mental energy on not being able to play only increases stress and making a big deal out of it like he has all but eliminates his chance to ever play in the game again

it seems to me that JRB , while being a fun friendly dude on the outside, is actually quite ****ty and scammy. selling non existant debts to deeb, poaching whales... this dude is kind of starting to look like poker cancer.

well which is it?

Obviously the Aria is skirting the law but a law doesn't make something fair or unfair.

On one hand you can say is fair is a free for all anyone can play. On the other hand you can say fair is the people who work to keep the games running, make the whales happy etc are the ones who get to play.And while this is a separate issue i always laugh at the idea of fairness in poker when most games are pot raked rather than time raked.

And from the Arias standpoint they pay hosts a lot of money to bring in whales. So if all they have to do to get rich whales in the casino is host a poker game it's a great deal for them. The hundred or so bucks an hour they would rake compared to just one whale going in the pit for 10 mins each night.

try to be funny. whales like jokes. thats the secret to getting in good games.

private games should be able to be held in casinos. they are paying for security and a fair game. who cares what the law says just follow the rules of the poker world. Just ask nicely 100 times and eventually u will get a chance.

If you have the requisite buy-in, you should be allowed to play--period.




Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

This situation in the poker economy is the exact same thing that happens in the regular economy: ultra-rich guys get out of paying their taxes and everyone else suffers because of it. Mitt Romney types pay 9% or whatever, but the non-billionaire class has to pay 30-40%. These rich whales get to play in games where everyone sucks, but a 2/5 or 5/10 fish plays in games where people are going to be there to tax them for their predeliction for degenerate gambling.

If these rich whales were on Poker Stars spraying their money at 500/1k or whatever, you'd have a lot more reg on reg action at 100/200 and 200/400. 25/50 games would get softer because the better players wouldn't bother with it and that keeps going right on down the line. Meanwhile more new players would be depositing at the bottom when the see all this huge action going on, guys making 5 million in a week, etc. And they'd last a lot longer at .25/.50 because any one who has a clue and takes the game seriously would quickly make it to 2/4+.

Poker obviously makes the Aria a lot more money than if they put machines there.

This is a quite common practice by regs in casinos (with the "open seat to the public" law) who have clout with the management to stifle outside pros getting into games with fish.

Agreed....but its also disingenuous when JRB and Aria on one hand advertise on television their big games that anyone can come and sit down and play with the big boys, but on the other pick and choose who they want in their games.

Poker has inequality, and it isn't a meritocracy as most claim it is. Merson, a world champion, unfortunately learned this first hand as a popular guy who has more debts than a government budget gets to call the shots on who is in these agmes moreso than an average guy who grinded his way to the top. But that's the way the poker world works, which is why poker is waning (amongst other bigger factors).

Why should casinos not be allowed to offer private games?

Restaurants have private dining areas, nightclubs offer table service and you can take your friends into your lounge at a sports stadium. I don't see a reason why a casino can't let customers rent tables to play what they want with who they want.

Who decides?

Or better yet: Who decides, who decides?