Grazvis sent to right account, and James sent to the wrong account?

Grazvis 0% at fault. He didn't **** up he deserves his money. If he sent to scammer then James wouldn't have sent ****, then in that situation it's on Grazvis, but that's not what happened.

Something I haven't seen mentioned(Only read about first 100 posts), is that IMO the person dealing with the bitcoin aspect of the trade has more responsibility for due diligence.

OP was sending to an account that he knew belonged to James Romero, through an online poker site. its really hard to get poker sites to reverse transactions but its not impossible. OP wanted a poker site to poker site transaction. If he can validate he is sending to a vouched for account(obviously correct due diligence would validate the skype/person he is chatting with as well), his blame in the scenario is not as bad as the person participating in the nonrefundable option of BTC transfer.

That said; Since they both are at fault 50/50 -10k a piece seems correct.

James wanted site for bitcoin, Op wanted site for site. Site for site due diligence is rooted in the turstworthines of the account you are sending to. BTC due diligence relates to the person you are talking to. James is more at fault imo. Still think 50/50 is easiest.

Sending User "Grazvydas" $10k. (We are splitting the loss)

Nice of you to do that....

Respect for that sir

Maybe double check where you send it

Good ending, hopefully this just results in everyone being more careful in future

Respect. 50/50 split seems the most fair here, since both parties have some fault.

lol I had some hot takes about the "busy man" post, but instead let's just say I'm glad to see that Romero has come around to making this right. gg

https://gyazo.com/098ccdbb56b32dc926498391083e8e16

Seems like James got convinced that sending me back is +ev at this point.

It's not all about the money. I didn't like how I got treated aswell.

I would like James to make a public apology "I will try to be more responsible when I am a recognized "trushworthy trader" and will try to do my due diligence as sending second, aswell as if something like this happens again, I will try to communicate in a respectful and fair manner"

I agree that James behavior throughout this has been quite bad, but that's not all you're asking an apology for. You both got fooled here. Are you also going to apologize for not doing proper diligence?

The 10k is your apology, don’t be greedy

dont agree. the 10k is the fair settlement that if he had honour as a respected trader he would have at least entertained this from the start and brought all the facts to light.

What makes this scam even more interesting is that there is a non 0% / motive for either party to have created the fake accounts. Not saying that they are obviously, just that they both have potential gain in that scenario.

You would think that it wouldn't be easy for fake replica accounts to just appear in HS trading skype groups though, who is letting these people in?

You were respectful, just be more careful ffs lol

Gl at the hs tables

Come on, this is just getting childish now. Be happy he is sending you 10k and move on.

Agreed. OP, get over yourself, and I was leaning your side the whole way. James held his opinion, evaluated other positions, and changed his tune to split the loss with you 50/50.

Just be happy with the 10k and move on. There was a decent chance you were going to be on the hook for the full 20k. Remember, 10k is significant money to the vast majority of the people in this world, even if it isn’t that important to you. Be satisfied and move on.

Lol did you really just write an apology on his behalf and ask him to post it publicly?

Yeah, there have been some good posts that have swayed me somewhat as well.

About the only thing I'm sure of at this point is that I'm not buying any of the "Person X has no fault in this", whether X is OP or Romero. Scammer got away with $2 K, and both parties ****ed up and bear at least some responsibility.

Excellent.

Dude, c'mon.

This.

Was he rude? Sure. An apology for that to you in any form, private or not, might be nice. Any apologies about the scam itself, by either of you, should be to the public, for both doing your part in enabling a scammer to continue doing what he or she does. Or you could thank the posters in this thread who likely helped convinced Romero that he had some culpability in this matter as well.

Too many responsible and high-volume traders are being impersonated. High-volume traders are usually NEVER sending first so at times they don't need to vet who they're sending to.. Especially if they are receiving funds that are non-reversible. IE) James has connections at N8 to make sure that the funds he receives are not being reversed or that these funds are not fraudulent.

A hard-vouch was made for James in Skype with a direct link to the real James Romero.

OP, be happy you did a swap with James because if this was with me, you would be getting 0.

Hopefully this leads to HS traders taking the extra time to verify the identity of the person they're trading with. EVEN IF you're sending to a legitimate account, and EVEN IF you already have funds secured and is sending second. Only then can these man-in-the-middle scams be avoided. James and Grazvis both ****ed up.

James has 20 full time projects and runs 13 forutune 500 companies, and Grazvis flips for 100k every other day and holds the stars lobby, so 20k xfer wotevs, but you guys still really kinda need to still verify who you're talking to and sending money to

Gonna reiterate that forwarding money blindly is money laundring if the funds you recieved ends up coming from a fraudulent source (for example if the person who sent James ACR money got a hold of it via hacking an account). EVEN IF it's done in good faith. You're not in a no-lose-situation just because you recieved funds first

TOO RICH...

+1

Think here James was under a lot of pressure from people who don't understand how those skype groups work, and he evaluated that bad reputation will probably cost him more than 10k in the long run.

Grazvis getting 50% is in one way better than what you can expect, but IMO he deserves the full ammount.

You guys claiming that he isn't owed a apology are clueless. Grazvis handled the situation very well and stayed professional meanwhile James first of all was the one that shipped of 20k to some scammer but also acted like a spoiled kid. He showed 0 respect towards OP, this behaviour is very unprofessional and shouldn't be let off this easy.

He acted better after the situation happened i have to agree he also caused the situation in the first place by falling for a very easy to spot scam. All the people harping on about James sent to the wrong place i can guarantee they would be more likely to make this mistake if they had received funds first without issue. Wonder if Grazvis is planning a apology for James losing 10k here.

The sub par attitude from James has had the effect of moving opinion against him when any impartial arbitration just looking at the facts and not the conversations after would of ruled against Grazvis.

James should post the BTC address he sent to. People who have done BTC transactions in that Skype group can check if they've ever sent to the same address. Maybe the scammer was careless enough to use the same address that's attached to their real name.

If first guy gets scammed and never sends money to the real 2nd guy, first guy is out the full amount, and it's not even close.

A lot of where the fault should lie is how exploitable it is to scam for yourself. If first guy sends and it doesn't arrive, he can claim scam and just get money from 2nd guy, this makes no sense. Conversely, if 1st transaction is correct, and 2nd claims he got scammed, he could have just "sent" it to himself, which also makes no sense.

The only reason in this case where OP is partially at fault is there's apparently a protocol and hierarchy to follow to not get scammed which OP didn't follow.