Who's being selective? Everyone is doing it.

If you aren't the predator, you're the prey.

So he doesn't deny using Vpn at some point, but that he hasn't during the scoop run right

Good lord - the point is that you are ineligible to play on the site if you are either underage or if you VPN from America and so those two things are night and day different than a chat violation. You are allowed to play on Stars if you cuss in chat but you are not allowed to play at all if you violate other rules. This really isn’t as difficult as you seem to think it is.

this by itself will probably **** him

As someone mentioned using a VPN is not expressly prohibited, what's wrong(how does it violate Stars ToC anyway) with using a VPN to watch American Netflix?

I can’t believe the fact that if he was disqualified from the event then that portion of the prize pool has to be refunded to the players hasn’t been addressed. This is esssentially either theft from the entries of the event or Gordon Vayo by Pokerstars.

I don't know what you are arguing. The first 2 sentences are just the same thing followed by an attack.

Yes, VPN use is not allowed by Stars' TOS
Yes, Playing from the US is not allowed by Stars' TOS
Yes, Cussing in the Chat is not allowed by Stars' TOS

Yes, Using VPN will result in ban and seizure by Stars' TOS
Yes, Playing from US will result in ban and seizure by Stars' TOS
No, Cussing in chat will not result ban and seizure by Stars' TOS

I am not disputing any of the above. All I'm saying is that Pokerstars', if they decided to, could ban and seize your account for cussing in the chat. If Pokerstars decided to change the rules regarding cussing in the chat to ban and seize funds, then it would in effect be the exact situation, a violation of Pokerstars' TOS resulting in ban and seizure, not "Day and Night different".

Because it has been addressed.

Not sure a variant of "If Pigs Had Wings They Would Fly" really is significant, but I will agree with the point that if they changed Day (punishment for cussing) to Night (punishment for VPNing) then indeed the punishments would be the same in that scenario since now Night = Night.

Similarly if they decided to change the rules for those who type haiku poems in chat (without cussing) or those who say "nh" or "gg" to allow them to take their balance then those acts would be the same as VPNing at that point in terms of punishment.

k so plaintiff says vpn malfunction.
- defendant claims we want proof you were never in US while playing at any time.
- plaintiff gets lawyer.
- lawyer calls cbp gets access to all records of border exits and entries. (this can be done)
- exits and entries are then cross-referenced to all plaintiff's playing times.
- if plaintiff is being honest, all of these should match up correctly, and the use of a vpn then becomes irrelevant.
- plaintiff then settles out of court for due winnings + legal expenses.

wtf is wrong with plaintiff here? is he ****ing ******ed? the easier answer imo is that at one point he was playing from the states and if he takes the route i outlined above he would be proving himself in breach of stars TOS.

regardless of how shady the timing of suspending the account was, plaintiff did agree to the TOS to not play in the US.

He might know he is in the wrong technically but is gambling on paying x in legal fees to win ~50x if Pokerstars cave and settle in full out of court or to win ~20x if they settle out of court for a lower payout.

The risk might be if he bet/folds (follows through to a point with legal proceedings then later in the process withdraws the case), or bet/calls (takes legal proceedings all the way but loses the case), that in either scenario he might achieve no payout at all but is ordered by the courts to pay the other side's legal costs.

It's significant because using a VPN and playing from the US are not crimes. That would be TOS violations. That is: Pokerstars is seizing money that doesn't belong to them entirely due to their own rules that can be changed at any time. Name another industry that is allowed to do this. B&M industry, for instance, has to give you your card counting profits even though it's against their own rules, because it's not illegal to count cards, though they have the right and will likely ban you from their establishment. Now if you use a computer to help with the count, then you can have your winnings seized and be prosecuted.

When you agree to the TOS, you are entering into a legally binding agreement between you and Rational Group. I think many industries allow you to enter into a legally binding agreement with a company.

the most amazing thing about this is not that somebody of vayo's means exercised such poor judgment in using a vpn to play on stars from the states, but that he actually won a heads up match

Tons of industries use TOS agreements (that most people do not read). As a consumer you choose whether to agree to them or not, and this person chose that. If a company makes a completely irrational change to their TOS (ie: we can force you to pour a blend of liver and kidney juice on your pets if you win a hand) then that would be noticed by someone (some people read the TOS) and highlighted and then consumers can decide whether a company that makes erratic rules like that is worth doing business with at that time.

The whole imaginary if they do a change to "A" then it is the same as "B" (when the chances of changing "A" in that way are pretty much 0%) to show how mean B is is a silly debating approach.

If someone thinks that using a VPN prior to the actual tournament (which may be what happened here) should not be punished in this way then they can make that claim, but they still need to explain how that is fair to the people who never used a VPN because they were following the ToS.

Not quite true. PokerStars´ ToS (§4.3) state personal details are processed in compliance with the data protection laws of the Isle of Man. The Isle of Man is a self-governing British Crown Dependency rather than a British Overseas Territory (like Gibraltar) so is not in the EU. The Isle of Man has an "Adequacy Agreement" with the EU for collecting and processing data, but the actual data protection laws could be a lot different to those being imposed by the EU.
You are right about being able to request what details Stars holds about you (and shares with third party service providers), and you can request that some of it is not used. I asked about what would happen if I refused the processing on my online action to determine my "personalized promotions". Still waiting for an answer.
Sorry for derailing the thread.

You have not been able to use a VPN to watch Netflix for over 12 months.

The answer to what is wrong with using a VPN to watch other countries Netflix content is just because Netflix hold the rights to stream a movie in the US (for example), it does not follow they have the rights to stream that movie in other countries.

I think that's what triggered Stars' investigation. It'll probably turn out that Vayo got Qui Nguyen to play the final table for him.

Bang. Nailed it. If donks can take a trip up north and have someone else in the states finish up a tournament, then Stars must prevent this, when perps are this stupid.

Why anyone would play on Stars is beyond me.
On another note, how does someone like Dnegs, who lives in Vegas, play on Stars? Has he never ever accessed Stars thru a VPN?

I'm still having trouble imagining a legitimate reason to use a VPN during play. Vayo binging Stranger Things while multi tabling SCOOP events seems unreasonable.

Not true, did it last week. Forgot I was logged into work VPN and opened Netflix - full access to the American version.

Maybe it depends on the quality of the VPN?

Full circle back to jurisdiction, I think I'll skip page 3:

Yes, but the laws and regulations of IoM and Pokerstars are not the only ones that apply. The country of play, US/Canada in this instance, also comes into play. Black Friday showed the poker industry that the laws of the location of the player also apply. The whole point of the vpn/cussing debate was that Pokerstars' TOS is not the only legal system(lol) at play. Pokerstars can put whatever the **** they want in their TOS, that does not give them the authority in either US or Canada to seize your funds. It does only in the IoM. VPN/US use is also not the same as cheating(fraud) or underage play(illegal contracts) in seizing funds. Both of those would be universal illegal, where playing poker from US and VPN use are legal. If all your saying is Stars' TOS, Stars' TOS, then you're ignoring the only part that really matters. Stars' TOS is not the only thing that applies.