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Google program beats human Go expert Google program beats human Go expert

03-12-2016 , 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirbynator
the micro possible in sc1 is somewhat limited though granted control groups are much much smaller making it harder for humans to control big groups of units.

But I doubt bots in sc1 could do stuff like this
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0desmu1
man, the future is going to be interesting.
.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-12-2016 , 09:12 PM
I think people are missing the really big thing here.

It is a great achievement to be able to design a program, with the right hardware, to win a game of Go against a top human player. Of course comparable to Deep Blue beating Kasparov in chess or Watson winning in Jeopardy. But AlphaGo differs from Deep Blue and Watson. Quote from Wikipedia;

Quote:
As opposed to other AIs, such as IBM's Deep Blue or Watson, which were developed for a pre-defined purpose and only function within its scope, DeepMind claims that their system is not pre-programmed: it learns from experience, using only raw pixels as data input. Technically it uses deep learning on a convolutional neural network, with a novel form of Q-learning, a form of model-free reinforcement learning.[1][30] They test the system on video games, notably early arcade games, such as Space Invaders or Breakout.[30][31] Without altering the code, the AI begins to understand how to play the game, and after some time plays, for a few games (most notably Breakout), a more efficient game than any human ever could.[31] For most games though (Space Invaders, Ms Pacman, Q*Bert for example), DeepMind plays well below the current World Record. The application of DeepMind's AI to video games is currently for games made in the 1970s and 1980s, with work being done on more complex 3D games such as Doom, which first appeared in the early 1990s.
Of course AlphaGo has unique code written for it. But at its core it seem to use code that is applicable to a lot of stuff and digital problem solving. The program is learning new things and then applying things it has learned to better accomplish future tasks. I think this is a huge milestone (although the step might not be huge compared to other AI-technology at this time) from which on digital systems will become more autonomous and less and less possible to predict.

As someone noted above, the singularity is near. Whether that is a good or bad thing and if we really want this technology to be developed by competing, private companies is questions now more urgent than ever.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-12-2016 , 09:23 PM
Starcraft and poker is interesting games since it is games without perfect information and this is of course another big obstacle for AI to overcome. For Starcraft it would seem scouting/gathering information would be of huge importance for the AI. In poker scouting isn't possible, on the other hand the possibilities in the game is far fewer than in Star Craft (or chess or go).
It would seem a game with many possible actions and without the possibility of gathering information about your opponent would be the hardest for an AI to master. Although there might not be such a game which is based on skill and not just random luck. Someone care to enlighten me?
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-12-2016 , 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanedeb
Whether that is a good or bad thing and if we really want this technology to be developed by competing, private companies is questions now more urgent than ever.
Elon Musk, Amazon and a bunch of other tech heavy hitters recently created a nonprofit called OpenAI headed by a former Google scientist to supposedly pursue AI for the benefit of humankind, or something. I would think that was a move to compete with Google rather than anything having to do with the welfare of humanity.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-13-2016 , 02:00 AM
Found a video of DeepMind solving Breakout in 240 minutes and doing it in a very clever fashion!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1eYniJ0Rnk
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-13-2016 , 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_tacular
They should test this program against Jimmy Cha, he is probably one of the most famous Go players. Not sure if he still plays much or not but it should be an interesting match up.

You have absolutely a zero ****ing idea about who Lee Sedol is. The guy reigned for over 10 years and is considered a living legend.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-13-2016 , 04:55 AM
Human takes game 4.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-13-2016 , 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenbar
Human takes game 4.

AlphaGo made a mistake according to the tweet by DeepMind CEO
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-13-2016 , 02:39 PM
Sedol winning game 4 is very interesting. I don't understand the game well enough to appreciate what kind of mistake was made but it may be that the style of the bot is exploitable after all.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-13-2016 , 03:04 PM
How much more complex is NLHE poker compared to go? Seems like to could apply the same kind of principles they used for go now they can solve a game of imperfect information?
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-13-2016 , 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastandLouche
Sedol winning game 4 is very interesting. I don't understand the game well enough to appreciate what kind of mistake was made but it may be that the style of the bot is exploitable after all.
The point is moot because even if it's making exploitable mistakes right now, it will self-adapt to patch it up.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-13-2016 , 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenbar
Human takes game 4.
Nice, the program has even developed the ability to show pity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RLGallday
How much more complex is NLHE poker compared to go? Seems like to could apply the same kind of principles they used for go now they can solve a game of imperfect information?
Go is a game of perfect information. Poker a game of imperfect information. Disregarding the perfect/imperfect information asymmetry go is many times more complex from my understanding. But since many games, and many decisions made in the real world, is made with imperfect information that is quite a big thing to disregard.
I do believe that if a big company like Google DeepMind with a lot of computer resources put the effort in they would in 6-12 months be able develop a program (with appropriate hardware) that in the long run would beat all the best players. But that is me speculating with not that much to stand on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0desmu1
The point is moot because even if it's making exploitable mistakes right now, it will self-adapt to patch it up.
Maybe. But as the developers explained during the press conference after the fourth game, AlphaGo uses millions of games to develop itself. A few hundreds or even thousand games won't make much of a difference, and of course one game even less.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-13-2016 , 09:19 PM
Google program beats human GoPro
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-14-2016 , 06:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLGallday
How much more complex is NLHE poker compared to go?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_and_mathematics

Quote:
From this table, we can see that 10^700 is an overestimate of the number of possible games that can be played in 200 moves and an underestimate of the number of games that can be played in 361 moves. It can also be noted that since there are about 31 million seconds in a year, it would take about 2¼ years, playing 16 hours a day at one move per second, to play 47 million moves. As to 10^48, since the future age of the universe is projected to be less than 1000 trillion years[10] and no computer is projected to compute anything close to a trillion teraflops (one yottaflops), any number higher than 10^39 is beyond possibility of being played.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-14-2016 , 06:51 AM
Pretty cray we exist in a world where this is simultaneously occurring while Hillary/Bernie and Trump/Cruz are the remaining choices for president
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-14-2016 , 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem
Pretty cray we exist in a world where this is simultaneously occurring while Hillary/Bernie and Trump/Cruz are the remaining choices for president
lol
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-14-2016 , 05:23 PM
yea the candidates are all like 1990's MACs

old, out of date garbage.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-14-2016 , 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirbynator
the micro possible in sc1 is somewhat limited though granted control groups are much much smaller making it harder for humans to control big groups of units.

But I doubt bots in sc1 could do stuff like this
Why wouldn't they be able to? Too few pixels to spread out to? I'm sure they'd be able to do stuff, after all when it comes to absolute perfection humans aren't even remotely close. When you practice a LOT you might be able to control like 5 units very well at once, but any more than that humans are painfully slow and inaccurate compared to bots.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-14-2016 , 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLGallday
How much more complex is NLHE poker compared to go? Seems like to could apply the same kind of principles they used for go now they can solve a game of imperfect information?
Well, according to Go math experts: number of possible positions in Go is 10^761 compared to the estimated 10^120 in chess ... a difference which exceeds the number of atoms in the known universe

I'd say the human race just crossed into the DANGER ZONE
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-14-2016 , 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaKing
All these 10^700 game states types of metrics are irrelevant now that computers beat humans with deep learning. They're not doing it by searching game states brute force, they're doing it by literally learning.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-14-2016 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenbar
Human takes game 4.
That to me is the most amazing part of the story not the computer won the first 3.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-14-2016 , 09:32 PM
Match 5 in 2 hours
live stream link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzpW10DPHeQ
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-15-2016 , 05:35 AM
Is he winning? I can't tell lol.
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-15-2016 , 06:07 AM
hardly surprising. poker is a lot more complex to solve
Google program beats human Go expert Quote
03-15-2016 , 06:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem
Pretty cray we exist in a world where this is simultaneously occurring while Hillary/Bernie and Trump/Cruz are the remaining choices for president
statistical evidence is rejected by the masses due to manipulation, media propagation etc. amongst other things
Google program beats human Go expert Quote

      
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