Posting as a new thread because I believe the subject of Global:
1) deliberately and blatantly lying about what they did with a prizepool
2) sneakily adding a clause to end of their cancellation policy that absolves them of responsibility for overlay —and then issuing an email implying they didn’t honor the overlay per said policy, despite the face that clause wasn’t there on Sunday AND they issued a statement that they WOULD honor the overlay and pay out according to their policy —which they linked
3) when confronted that they did not pay out by the policy OR honor the overlay as promised came out with an easily debunked set of nonsensical details about how they “generously” took the overlay from one tournament and spread it to players in a bunch of satellites and other tournaments.
4) when that last post was thoroughly exposed as all lies in pose #472 (linked here) went silent and has not responded since

I believe the above and their implications for the integrity of Global + the safety of our funds on the site are an entirely different subject than the crash on Sunday.
I also believe that in light of this new evidence that Global is dishonest, evasive, and unethical, they should no longer receive benefit of the doubt that they didn’t stage the entire day of technical difficulties as an out to cancel the $218 100k when they realized their projections Saturday night showed a likely overlay of 40k or more.

I addressed Global Joey’s last post withhttps://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=472
a line by line debunking. Crickets since then.


This needs to be in the public eye

What does the Wayback machine say about their Terms and changes ?

News: ChumbaWumba pokerz servers could not handle a big weekend of guaranteed tournaments. Total shocker.

Views: McCrybabies want buy-ins plus guarantees plus chip-chop.

Gossip: Still a super-soft site populated by fun players, but keep that on the down low, okay?

Way back does not have it archived.
When Global Joey first posted Sunday they “would honor the overlays and would payout according to their tournament cancellation policy “ several people went to the link (its under support tab on Global’s site but the email assuring this also contained a link)

And they posted screenshots of the whole page for everyone else.
The screenshots Sunday do NOT have that little note about guaranteed tournaments on them and DO have a “last updated on” timestamp

The page now has the verbiage that disavows guarantees and the “last updated on “ has been removed

[IMG][/IMG]

This is no longer about the debate on whether the site is or is not morally obligated to pay the full overlay.

This is about them lying to us repeatedly, and trying to change their policy after the fact then claim they were following it to the letter.

The implications of these actions are alarming and shouldn’t be swept under the rug.

use https://imgur.com/

other site you are using for images is dead

Ty!!

Bing Crawled Version from 16th May 2018 (according to Bing):



Google Crawled Version from morning of the 21st May:



Current Version:



Is the only difference the last line now in the latest version about guarantees not counting if the tournament cancels before its ITM? Or are there other differences?

Immediately under the “tournament cancellation policy” it says
“Updated 1 month ago”...you know, right befor the series started.
When they snuck the last little bit disavowing responsibility for the overlay —days after the crash and them saying they would honor it here on the 2p2 thread—they also removed the last updated timestamp because it would obv look really bad

These are the pictures that you wanted to post:

Ty!!

Looks like Global copied some of Stars' policy on this as they are incredibly similar in overall context and the actual layout:

https://www.pokerstars.com/poker/tou...cancellations/

I checked some of the other big poker sites to see if everyone had it laid out the same way as Stars, but they don't. So to me, it looks like Global just reworded the main parts of Stars' policy to make it their own.

Maybe the person who originally copied it (if they did copy it) doesn't work at Global any longer, or they were not asked how to deal with this, or they didn't remember where they got it from, as Stars even gives examples of how they pay out this exact situation (tournament started, not yet ITM)!

Stars' method - Total Prize Pool is divided equally into 2 parts:

Part 1 (50% of PP): Each remaining player gets an equal share
Part 2 (50% of PP): Each player gets an amount depending on their chip count vs total chips at the time of the cancellation (looks like chip count, not ICM)

Each remaining player will also get the fee of the tournament back (ie in a $11 MTT ($10 + $1), they will get $1 back

Obv busted players do not get anything back. Stars only pays out what it takes in, ie if a tournament has not hit its GTD, then it will only pay out Total Entries (including Rebuys/Addons etc) * BI

It is possible that a remaining player will get less than their BI back on Stars. But that's clear from their policy on it

OP states that there were 114 left in the tournament. Global says its 116. Its possible that they took a snapshot of the tournament when it began to have issues, and not when the whole thing crashed.

Global's way of calculating the refunds is bizarre and not what their own policy says:

Global says that they distributed ~$14K to players who were in the satellites to the 26M event. Were these hugely overlaying? If not, did you need to buy into these sattys, and if so what happened to the buy-in $$$ itself? Their wording of "these are funds that would have been part of that prize pool" seems an odd way to put it.

I think this is how Stars would calculate the crash for the 26M (diff versions depending on # remaining, and I also put in if they paid the GTD, which they don't):



Please correct me if you see something incorrect in there (starting chips, etc).

Global says this previously about the events:

Seems strange, but generous, that they paid much more than they needed to for the 26L. Seems strange that they didn't fully compensate the players who were in the 26M at the time of the crash/cancellation

Pmarrsouth,

I agree with you that it appears Global originally tried to copy stars policy.

However they put something different in print.
1) most importantly before they added the last “note” at end of policy this week—days after the crash—Global did NOT have anything in their policy that disavowed responsibility for overlay on a “guaranteed event.”

2) where Stars just chops “the prizepool” in 2 thoroughly defined shares among remaining players in addition to refunding “their fees”...Global’s verbiage indicates players will receive “their fees” back and then chop “the remaining prizepool”.
Now, it would be unethical to take the rake portion of “their fees” refund from the prizepool—so the rake portion should come out of the rake Global took and the buyin portion from the prizepool.
The “remaining prizepool” verbiage clearly indicates the buyins will be refunded first.

As opposed to Stars, no player will ever receive less than his buyin back under Global’s claimed policy (unless he’s buried in a rebuy event)

I posted in the original thread what Global ACTUALLY did:
They followed their posted policy as if the prizepool was 40k
EXCEPT they took the following unethical actions:
1) they took 114 x $110 from the 40k instead of 114 x $100 from 40k and 114 x $10 from the $1290 rake they collected. This left $27460 to be chopped instead of $28,600

2) from this already shorted “remaining prizepool” they calculated the equal share (120.44) and the chop chop share ( $0.010643/chip or $106.44/10k stack ) exactly as prescribed by their policy BUT THEN DIVIDED EACH SHARE BY 2.

If you do the math using that formula, it works out and you can predict any player’s actual refund to within pennies if they tell you approximately stack or tell them their exact stack if they tell you their refund amount
There is zero way I’m wrong about what formula they really used.

AFTER posting that formula which shows an unethical but plausibly deniable as an oversight act of taking the rake refunds from the prizepool ....AND a deliberate act of halving the prizepool shares, Global Joey THEN responded claiming (and simultaneously Global sent emails claiming same) they
1) paid out using the wonky math that doesn’t add up instead of the published policy they said they’d use
2) didn’t pay overlay on 40k per their policy on “guaranteed events”—with the new “note” now conveniently added to the policy webpage that was not there Sunday —-and in contrast to his statement that they would honor the overlays
3) that the claims they’d deliberately shorted the players or avoided the overlay was “silly”
4) to claim they’d “generously” spread the money that should have been overlay paid to players left in the 26M to give extra compensation to satellite and other tourney players —who by all logic would have been fairly compensated if Global just used their published policy on all MTTs.

So again, this post isn’t here in NVG because of the debate on whether they owe the overlay—in all honesty anyone disputing they owe it does not understand the gambling world and how important your word is—Thai post is not whining about that. This post is about the direct and blatant lying and unwillingness to come clean and be honest with the players....even in the face of certain proof that we know exactly what they did.

I woke up that day and registered for the tournaments I was going to play like usual. Everything was fine and the tournament lobbies were working normally. A couple hours later everything was laggy and you couldn't register for anything. Everyone who was already in the events had a huge edge and there were several tournaments for the gold coin series which had big overlays due to the inability for people to register. The $10k had like 30 people for a $30 buyin and paid about $2k up top. Players who were in these tournaments had a massive advantage and the people who were really screwed were the ones who couldn't enter.

I was in the L and M when they went down. I bought in for the low for $22 and got a medium ticket off a $20 satellite. I sat around unable to register for the medium due to the lobby issue, after about 45 minutes of waiting for the lobby to load it popped up and I used my ticket to enter. 10 minutes later they canceled the tournament and I really hadn't played any pots at all in it. I got about $280-$300 refunded for my initial $44 and I basically did nothing of noteworthy in them. I also got overlay money from several gold coin tournaments which only had 10-20 people in them. Partially honoring overlays seems more compensation than necessary, they basically screwed themselves out of money by not allowing players to register with their laggy lobbies. The situation sucks but the people who are bitching now are the ones who got compensated the most.

Partially honoring anything is not honoring it at all

Again this isn’t about “should they pay the overlay?”
Ask any top respected player here what the answer is and you’ll get the same response....but this isn’t about that.

This is about them blatantly lying about what they DID do.
And the implications of that fact.

And again, once we’ve established they are dishonest and unethical:
They had less than 100 people regged for a $218 $100k guarantee tourney the morning OF. You said yourself everything worked fine that morning and then all of a sudden the lag/no load etc started.
In my opinion it’s a huge and naive sucker move throwing out or even discounting the VERY REAL POSSIBILITY that they intentionally staged the “technical issues” to create a good narrative for cancelling the 100k and avoiding a projected overlay of likely $45-50k. There is almost zero chance that they were going to fill 400 more seats after noon on Sunday, and Im certain they have stats on how many they can expect to reg in various windows as it gets closer to the tourney—

we have seen Global lag before. We’ve seen it freeze and crash. We have never seen it exhibit the bahavior it did that day. And when did it “crash?” Literally 30 seconds before the 100k started.
I can picture the war room at Global as they weighed all the bad options and finally made the call at the 19th hour.
And 10 minutes later the site was up and running perfectly again.

IMO it’s equally or more likely that the whole afternoon or problems was orchestrated as a cover to cancel the 100k.
And since we have already caught them in several lies and doing sneaky things like changing the policy....they don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt here.

I agree fully with this


I do wonder if whoever copied this over just added in that pretty crucial "remaining" without realizing what it entails. I still think that when they say "tournament fee(s)" they are referring to the rake, as the have purposefully separated the expression in the previous paragraph:

bolding mine

As there appears to be complete confusion on their end regarding it, I'm unsure if they actually understand the meaning of what they have written

How long was late reg listed for this event? Were there many sattys to the event being played at the time?

The 100k said "Canceled" well before they restarted the servers. Of course they pulled the plug on those tournaments because a majority of the people who wanted to play couldn't register.

Looks like Joey deleted your thread in the subforum.

Xposting his response RE this issue:

Late reg is 1 hour. They need 458 runners to break even.
They had 106 as of 1 minute to start

As to what they might have misunderstood when plagiarizing another site’s policy: not our problem.

did any event in the series have any overlay?

The fact that you think they might have done this on purpose discredits the rest of your argument. The 100k was not going to be an overlay, no chance. They don't have overlays because they set the guarantees low. The amount of traffic lost due to the tourneys canceling far outweighs any sort of overlay that could have possibly happened.

You think they didn’t halve the chop portions and lie about the way they calculated the payouts on purpose?

Was late reg finished in the 26M tournament? Presumably not if there were still sattys running for it. How long was late reg for it? How long in between the 26M starting and the $110 $100K (meant to be) starting?

Why do you think they halved (exactly 50%?) the chop portions? Are you saying BOTH the equal amount per player remaining AND the chip counts, or just 1 of them? I have seen your math on it, but still don't understand how you get that they halved it

.

Yes they paid half the equal amount per player and half the chip chop portion for each player + the 110 back. I’m not certain why you ask why I think this when you have seen the math....did you see the post with actual refunds of players and their stacks? If you use the wonky formula Global claims they used—instead of their standard policy—, the refunds actually received would require stack sizes thousands more than the player had at the end. If you take $110(buyin) + 60.22 (1/2 of equal share portion for 114 left ) + ($0.010643*chipstack/2) you will be within pennies of any players actual received payment if you are accurately reporting their stack to within 100 chips. As to how I arrived at the formula, I just realized their had to be some formula they used and brainstormed how they did it...and it dawned on me. So I took all the people who had reported their payout amount and chip count and plugged my data in and checked —and it checked out. I then started asking people to either give me their stack sizes and I’ll guess what Global paid you, or give me your payout and I’ll tell you what your chip stack was—I didn’t get anyone’s wrong.