Yeah, but admit it, I'm damn good at cliffs.

I'm on record multiple times stating that a) I deserve zero credit for digging anything up and b) giving credit to Rangey, who had people singing, "Rangey for mod!" in the "I am Jose" thread.

FWIW, I appreciate that everyone is thanking me for the effort I've put into consolidating everything, but I'm fairly certain that mods aren't selected via throwing together cliffs for a scandal thread.

You guys are sweet, tho.

The people who have been following and watching this unfold the entire distance, know RangeyMcTriplemerge did the massive work, largely in the face of the fanboys adversity.

For that alone, I think Rangey deserves to have his efforts not forgotten. I am glad you said this brrrap. Seems some people are trying to overwhelm the recent threads, so as to possibly influence the oppinion of the casual/newer observers.

Rangey for mod imo

rangey

stop the childish "who will be mod" war please. Its totally annoying.
Peeople invested in those thread dont do it because they want to be mod. I'm sure they dont give a **** about it. They do it because they like it. Say thanks and read.
Thanks for the cliffs SGT

Well I agree that Rangey has been crushing it since the beginning and has been probably NVG's best detective in recent months. That said, you obviously deserve some credit for helping so much with this. I'm not saying writing a couple cliffs is deserving of mod or whatever, but from what I understand you have always been a very helpful and informative member of the community. With the amount of people following and posting in NVG the last few days it's obv that adding another mod wouldn't hurt and you seem like an easy choice. Fwiw if I had a choice in it Rangey and a few others would too, but you seem to have more of a history with this site and don't think anyone can really argue it would be a bad idea for them to do it.

There have been a lot of jokes about JM being Rain Man and a lot of disbelief that anyone could be so socially awkward and clueless about the true motives of those who pretend to be his friends. But I can't help wonder if Daniel actually is autistic.

I should say up front that I've had no psychiatric or other medical training. But I have young children, and after the vaccine/autism bull**** that was in the news I've done a bit of research on Autism Spectrum Disorders. Take a look at some of the things I found tonight in a quick Wikipedia search (lol wikipediaments). Below is the section on characteristics of Autism Spectrum Disorders, in its entirety, although the bolded parts were obv chosen by me.

So maybe Daniel's shy, awkward demeanor actually goes much deeper. It sounds like he's had difficulty building and maintaining meaningful relationships, and he's also shown extraordinary abilities in a restricted interest (poker). If this is the case, it's imperative that we take it into account when considering his role in this drama.

Here we have someone who is arguably the best HU player in the world and filthy rich as a result, but who might be utterly incapable of the social interactions we take for granted, and who might find it impossible to judge the true motives of those around him. And what kinds of people might gravitate to a rich, talented guy who can't judge character? Scumbags who want to leech off of him. He's got a publicist who used to run ponzi schemes and a "best friend" who, if the mounting evidence is correct, was trying to siphon off Daniel's wealth and talents for his own.

Despite his admitted inconsistencies and questionable behavior, Daniel could very well have been both a victim and a mark.

Almost pisses me off sometimes that yout posts are so perfect and unassuming haha. Keep up the good work.

right, dont forget a liar.

Historically there have always been two separate threads, one for serious discussion and one for anything and everything else. In this case it just they just happened to be across two separate forums with somewhat of a 'cultural divide'. If there wasn't a HSNL thread there would be a SRS CONTENT thread here, and if there just a single thread it would be policed hard. As it was there were practically no rules in the NVG threads. I know how it seems but it's really not as elitist as it appears at first glance, and it's not at all out of the ordinary.

sorry if its been posted, but theres so many threads/pages to go through. is there a word document to read for the interviews with jm and if so where is it?

listening to interview... so.. he says.. they couldn't live with jose now.. because he's a now known scumbag.. but.. he will protect and still live with haseeb..which haseeb is a now known scumbag.. Jungles a mess .. his live game must really S***..cuz..he cant lie for sh**..

I already have twice... I hope that sounds sufficiently stern. The threads have gotten so big that I assume the posts were missed. Users don't read all the posts either.

There was an ATF thread and a big fiasco that resulted in IP checking being restricted to a degree. Mods have to make a request to a superultramod to check the IP now. Unfortunately even this slight hassle leads to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
As crazy as it sounds that seems to be what happened here.

How many PMs did you send to a mod asking him/her about checking IPs in general? Follow up: How many PMs did you send to a mod asking him/her about specifically checking Jose's IPs?

In case it was like a lot, here is a wiki article about large numbers to help you phrase your answer better:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_numbers

To my knowledge not a full one. I plan to contribute to the transcription when I wake up tomorrow, assuming somebody else doesn't get to it. (sweet ass friday night transcribing party someone might be having)

haha true enough thanks for all of this, definitely appreciated

for anyone that was able to get thru all of those interviews with JM God bless you cuz I couldn't take it............

This might be a dumb questions but can anyone confirm "Jose" even exists? Was this just a random name made up by jungle and dogishead to scam people?

I teach kids with Autism for a living. I have extensive experience working with kids who have special needs. I am obviously not making a diagnosis or anything but...

I think you may be on to something. I've watched a few interviews with him and he is either REALLY socially awkward, or there seems to be something going on.

I won't go into details as to why I think that because that would be disrespectful of the guy.

I hope that you are wrong, however, because if you aren't, then that would make this story attain a new level of sliminess.

I would like to know this also

It's hoenstly starting to look more and more like it was all a way for Jungleman to play. He obviously financed the entire operation as was speculated since the NVGtards began speculating everything all smelled very wrong. Knowing what we know now, I think this is a fair question to be asked since so many people seem O.K with just dumping this all on some kid named Jose (who even Jungle seems to never have met lol) I mean at what point do you not take a step back and realize, maybe Jose was just the front for Jungleman to play.

Obv. he is a real kid for the purpose of getting bank accounts, setting up Euro accounts etc. I suspect this was really all he was needed for, and recieved a cut for that. Along with being the "front/face" of the operation

Two possible scenarios:

1. Haseeb and Jose worked out this whole bull**** scam to con JM. Haseeb is clearly broke and anyone who believes otherwise is more naive than JM himself. Haseeb is not the once baller poker pro he was after getting "scammed" and it's so clearly obvious considering the interview with JM and the fact that Haseeb needs JM to spot him 300k for a bet HE made, this is straight embarrassing IMO.

2. Haseeb and Jose worked out this whole bull**** scam to to split it 50/50. None of it had to do with conning JM himself past the 50k which Haseeb rationalized as "kids made 5M online and about to make 1.5M more off the durrr challenge, 50K is nothing for him". Scamming everyone else is cake when your Haseeb and JM still has your back because it's painfully obvious he has no money of his own. JM eventually found out about the fact that Haseeb was in on all of the stunts Jose pulled but isn't yet convinced that Haseeb was scamming him. Thus, he isn't willing to sell a friend (a friend he lives with nonetheless) out just yet. It's also quite sad that JM has such a poor presence outside of poker and is holding on for dear life to his friendship with Haseeb.

Put yourself in JM's shoes, can you sell out a friend you who's sitting right next to you with whom you've traveled half way across the world? Thought so.

Also, anyone dropping names out of thin air should be straight banned - like the idiot who mentioned Scott Palmer. Shooting in the dark while dragging names through the mud should not be looked past.

**Just so you nits don't pick too hard, by broke I mean he isn't worth > 50k. Broke by HS baller standards.

Anyone who sympathizes with JM in this whole episode has no business complaining about the lack of respect the poker community gets in society.

Anyone involved in a fraudulent scheme to the extent he has admitted to and then on top of it found to be obstructing justice afterwards by lying about it would be no-brainer guilty in the eyes of the law and face punishment. "He was too stupid to know what he was doing" is *not* an acceptable defence in a court of law, for good reason.

jungle interview cliffs... ummm, yeah yeah, I dont remember, I think, ok ok i did do that, but..ummm, NO, like ummm, i dont think, but..ummmm, apologize to who??, ummmm, NO haha, Poor me, ummmm, it's like ummm, 1 lie.. thanks for the interview guys... ummm..what did i just say..wtf.. haseeb come here ..an make me your bit** 8)

If i wasn't engaged, I would love you right now.

I think I spoiled you guys a bit with my series of IP checks.

The vast majority of mods don't have the ability to check IPs. I'm not sure which mods do and which mods don't. I think this was done a while ago because of privacy concerns. I wasn't around then, so not really sure. I became a member of the elite IP-checking club so that I could look into when Haseeb posted on Girah's account and stuff because doing that is a PITA so it would've been uncool to make another mod do that.

There's a thread in the mod forum where mods who don't have the ability to check IPs request IP checks from those who do. I think mods are typically pretty hesitant to do this because we all know how much of a PITA it is being a mod. (Your "_____ for mod!" posts are pretty funny considering that being a mod is a responsibility and not a privilege.)

Also, mods don't think of themselves as 2p2's elite team of investigators or as 2p2's cops. Obviously we're all active members of the community in some capacity, so we often end up joining in on the sleuthing. Plus we often share information that we get by being mods. But, that's not really our role as moderators.We're housekeepers who try to keep the forums relatively readable and within 2p2's guidelines.

Also also, I know at least one person mentioned 2p2's ads with Lock Poker influencing mod decision. To clarify, mods aren't paid. I'd be really surprised if any mod would compromise their integrity to help 2p2 make money.

Finally and most importantly, we just aren't aware of everything that everyone wants done on the forums. It's annoying being a mod and seeing that some dude started a thread in NVG linking to some thread with a trojan or whatever with 30 people posting in the thread without reporting it. It's even more annoying to have a ton of people criticize mods for not looking into something really specific that, to my knowledge, nobody asked us to do.

As Vanessa emphasized, Girah's loss in 10k NL to the person from Portugal should raise suspicion on circumstantial grounds. I think the importance of finding out the IPs of each player during that session is hard to overstate and could go a long way in showing just what was going on. Props to Noah and VS for conducting an excellent interview.

The most absurd thing to me is that HQ still insists that the chipdump had nothing to do with the challenge.