I feel like it's not a bad time to discuss how awful a lot of RIO coaches are, especially cash ones. It's almost like RIO just ran out of people and decided to hire random mediocre regs who talk a good story (similar to ginge) it's really all over the place

All Too New (Henry Lister) playing 200z, then 50z, talks about exploit then gto on his past streams on twitch

Tbh the only good Holdem coach on there is Sauce and even then he doesn't even play holdem much anymore so it doesn't justify the price.

I would actually like to claim that maybe not one of their cash coaches apart from Sauce is beating 500z, can we see some results? I don't see results from these coaches anywhere.

Do you 2p2 trolls even play poker or just come here for the drama? Obv 12k hands is nothing in a game like 500zoom

Wow, my comment got deleted. Admins? Who deleted it? A friend of BBZ or they paid them off? Wtf just happened?

Most coaches in all fields are medium to low tier lifers with a wealth of knowledge but minimal ability to make good $ in their field outside of coaching

This is nonsense, Run it once is great value for only $100. First Henry is a essential pro which is $25/month.
Under elite you have Galfond, Sauce, Dvoress, Krab, etc all active with videos and answering questions. You can also get it free if your actively posting, They run a zoom call each month included in the price, etc.
Its not like its 1k for some crappy course, Long list of those that are terrible value but run it once does not fall in the same category imo.

This, there are very few people that are going to give their insights or secrets while they are at the top of the food chain. What good does it do someone that is crushing the 500z pool to let everyone know how/why they are crushing them? They either have to be quitting poker, transitioning away from poker, or be getting paid so much that it is worth it to them. If someone is making 200k+ per year or whatever, getting paid 30k to make a course that causes people to play against them better and reduces them to making 150k a year going forward makes 0 sense.

Yeah, that must be it.

Or it could be that the post you replied to was deleted (likely because it was out of line/somewhat abusive/derailing, but I'm not sure), so yours no longer made sense.

I'll leave it to you to reason out which one seems more likely, and if you have further questions, there's an NVG moderation sticky thread you can post them in.

Ginge has hours of video's on here and elsewhere for gods sake, why the hell didnt BBZ watch some and then decide if he thought he was up to scratch or not.
If you watch Ginge he comes across as honest as far as his ability is concerned, he will often say I've not a clue what the right move is here. He's playing 4+ tables in the video's and trying to do a commentary at the same time, little wonder if his results suffer a little.
Again he does say he is not big into GTO, he does some work but does not believe its always the best against the weaker players.

BBZ approached Ginge not the other way around, and now to stick the knife in and call Ginge a fraud is a bit much. Like Rick says he does himself no favours at all.
Ginge surely knows if he pretends to be better than he is he would be found out, would he be silly enough to do that, I doubt it.

I will be protesting outside your offices on Friday.

Ginge is good at poker. Shut up everyone I can see him beating 500z for 5bb. You animals must finally understand that at 500z still nobody really knows whats going on nor do they understand solver output and their GTO talk is 99% bs. Not saying GTO is bs but some 500z pleb can at best try to copy solver strategies and then miserably fail.

Context?

It is from the greatest coaching video of all time.

Video coaching is a relic of the pre solver era and it's also a very lazy way to go about learning. I'm very confident that in 2021 if you want to get good at poker the best way to go about it is to get accurate sims and play against them in a gto trainer until they get burned in your skull. Really the only coaching commodity that is left nowadays is solver heuristics. If a coach can't show you a bunch of sims and extrapolate a heuristic that you can immediately start applying in similar spots then that coach is pretty much worthless. Pretty much what separates the best from the not so best is what level of resolution their heuristics operate at.

No just play money tables running pio outputs daily and trolling in 2p2 threads. Sauce wanted HU but i declined because waste of my time.

-Note here he doesnt show EV in any of his pics.

they were clearly talking about NLHE.

and why should it be ok to only get shitty coaches in the 25/month program?

i have nothing against RIO btw - i have no reason to think they're not the best coaching site out there.

This is exactly how the content should of been measured. It does not take a GTO wizard to run some sims and compare it to his coaching content. Hell it really doesnt take anyone special to create a video series on the outputs of pio in most spots in holdem and explaining how deviating from GTO is -ev.

But hey, maybe playing exploitatively works?

lmao thank you. hopefully this guy doesn't coach anymore

Pretty sure I have Henry lister marked in my head as horrible and to avoid

Who do you think that target audience is for $25 a month? Mid stakes regs? I am sure any 10nl player could benefit from a reg grinding 50-200zoom for only a few buy ins a month.

Also yes for NL cash they have krab, Sauce, Teunuss, Thejericho2, etc.
My point was compared to all the garbage overpriced stuff on the market run it once's price point seems quite fair to me.

Can we start a poll to vote on which one is more likely? This thread is terribly boring and pointless but a poll would really bring it to life!

Seconds :40 until :52 or so are best watched five or six times consecutively for the most enjoyment.

Everything is subjective. RIO coaches do in fact do what your suggesting and not everyone has hours to burn with trainers (I do and agree its a great way to learn) so for these people or those who learn differently it can be a great way to learn or save time for a great price.

** Seems BBZ updated his instagram story (15 hours ago) and him and Ginge agreed to stop the drama**

Rough transcript since I cannot record it / I believe it expires soon

All from BBZ POV:

- "Wants to recap all of the events in one place since the drama was spread among pads podcast, twitter, instagram"

- "Best unbiased summary I can do which isn't easy, I approached Ginge and assigned him to do a bundle for us based on my perspective and assumption that he was a winning and succesful player, I had heard of his 1.2m winnings live etc and I was impressed, I said we would launch it on our site since you have a community that would love to support it"

-" Fastforward 3 months , the dude worked his ass off and got the bundle out for us, he did a good job and I assume this would be a final check before launching the bundle and I had no reason to doubt it would be a really high level piece of content and we would be good to go , it turned out for better or worse I disagreed with some of the stuff that was in it so we ultimately pulled the course"

- "I paid him for his contribution and apologized for wasting his time, said it was my fault for wasting his time and im really ****ing sorry. I paid him $5k and said I owe him one , and wanted to be respectful and hopefully we could just drop it there and wished him good luck in the future and that it was in both of our best interest to move past it"

- "All was fine, he went on pads podcast said basically the same thing I am now to wrap it up and I thought that was okay, but then he made a comment on twitter that I did not like which implied we sell over-complicated bullshit - We had a agreement to be respectful and not throw bullshit so it set me off which lead to yesterday where I was upset and said what I said"

- "Last night I ended up approaching Ginge and said this ****ing sucks, it might be in our best interest to call this whole (drama) thing off , I had a lot of people who reached out and said they would do the audit, I told Ginge we could still do it if he really wanted but I really didn't want to be in this drama so if this happens I will defend BBZ and thats what will happen, so what do you want to do?"

-"Ginge ended up agreeing to call it off and that we are all done now, some people might be disapointed there are no more fireworks but that's all, its done GG."