Nah you still got it mate, look at my last post i specifically said that's the easiest example but there are many.

So if that is the definition, can you please explain to me how during these 200knl games some very well known pros haven't been banned for sitting out within a matter of hands when the VIP has left?

Is that like you have lots of friends or you will be contacting your lawyer - give us your other ideas how to stop Bum hunting, you know, the not easiest examples.

The pros conduct seems like bumhunting to me but it is so undefined that it is hard to tell..... maybe they stayed and played the required number of hands.

This is the post I wrote in a new thread as I was unaware of the existence of this one:

Do not play at GGNetwork, they will steal your balance:

I've seen the memes about this network's tendency to confiscate player's balances, so I'm sure me and my friends are not exceptions and there are plenty of these stories, but I feel so insulted by these thiefs and so genuinely concerned that this site is getting more attention from the online poker world that I feel a need to write our story and do my best to make it as visible as possible so people know what they get into when they put a single penny on this site.

I'm a cash games pro from Argentina. There arent many of us in my country, we all pretty much know each other. Back in 2018 one of my good friends from poker whose name is Diego started playing high stakes on this site. He ran really well and made a good amount in a short period of time, until he was of course banned from the site for bumhunting (GG's way of saying we dont want you taking money away from this network). He was allowed to withdraw his balance. Diego told me about how soft those games were and tried to encourage me to deposit and play, he told me that they'd probably ban me too if I ran well but hey, at least I'd make a few thousands while it lasted. At the time I was mostly playing live poker and before that I had only played Pokerstars online, so this whole thing sounded too shady for me. I was used to a serious site and wasnt willing to play high stakes on a weird chinese site that would ban you for no reason other than beating the games they offered. I refused, but another good friend of us called Martin who was playing 100nl at the moment was very excited to jump into soft mid-highstakes games. He wasnt rolled for them so he asked us for a stake and Diego convinced me to share the stake with him to divide the risk, and I accepted.

We transfered Martin $3k to deposit on GG. He did so and started grinding. After a short period of time he had run those 3k up to a bit over 17 thousand dollars. Diego and I were of course quite happy with our investment, and Martin was absolutely delighted with the site as those winning meant a lot for him at the time.

The moment came where Martin tried to log into the site and was unable to. We figured the expected had happened, GG banning players skilled at the games that they offer. But this time it was different. They didnt allow Martin to withdraw his balance, they banned him under the false accusation that he was in fact Diego using a new account. They presented no proof of this, which is obvious because they cant prove something that isnt true. Martin answered their emails with pictured of his passport, utility bills, videos of him logging into his account but they didnt care.

It's not only that they didnt have any proof of their claim, but they actually had proofs of the opposite before we started staking him Martin had already created his account and had tried smaller games with his own money, and this took place while Diego's account was still active, in fact, it's likely that each player played different games, each at their own house, at the same time

They didnt care about this and they didnt care about the fact that there were many ways that Martin could prove his identity and that the accusations under which they were taking a large sum of money from him were absolutely false. They stopped answering Martin's emails and we gave up on all hope of them making it right, until a few days ago...

Someone who knew this story sent us a tweet from GGNetwork's account saying that previously banned players should send emails for their case to be reviewed. We were really excited, we figured the management of the networkd might have changed and since they are becoming every day more popular, they probably wanted to lose the bad rep of thiefs that they fairly earned. Martin sent an email with all the information that he had sent before, explaining all of this again and offering to show any proof that they may need, even offering to arrange a skype or zoom meeting with a GG rep, Diego, and himself, each of them showing their goverment issued passports to valid their identities. Their response left us with no other choice but to write this story, because it's absolutely outrageous that a network could act with such impunity:

They reopened both Diego and Martin's accounts (The screennames of these accounts are "elnichia" and "Sabandija726" respectively). Diego's account had a balance of $13 that they left intact. Martin's account had a balance of $0.00

Basically, what they said with this is: "Yes, we know very well you two are different players, come back and rake for us, and hey, if you had a very small amount of money we'll even give it back to you, but if you had a large amount of money we are gonna steal it because we can"

It's incredible to me that people are depositing into these sites any meaningfull amount of money. I'm going to do my best to alert as many people as I can to not do it, to withdraw their balances and run on any other direction, as I've never heard of a poker site online which acted with this amount of impunity and lack of principles.

Cliffs:
GG banned player 1 for bumhinting
GG banned player 2 accused of actually being player 1 with a second account, with no proofs for this and actually with proofs to the contrary. They take over $17.000 from player 2
After two years admits both players back, esentially admiting that the accusation was false, Player 1 gets his account back with $13. Player 2 gets it back fully empty.
Do NOT play at this site of thiefs

Lol I don’t know what to make of that.....

Just admitting you're wrong siding with the site like its the great defender of recreational players would be a good start.

They impound winning players' balances.

I’ve never said that. There’s no meaning in a discussion where one side is so incapable of expressing their views coherently that they have to attribute false statements to the other side

I’d say a good proportion of pros broadly fit your description. “All of them” would be absurd /basically impossible

I played some PLO and spins last night . Been online since 2005
Wrong about anything else? Oh no.. that’s just everything

If you weren't so fixated on just bumhunting, you probably would have understood it, but then again you struggled to grasp the basics of it, so you will probably be forever ignorant of my post.

undefined rules??? Do you even read T&Cs on any gambling site???
Do you want to know the best solution if you have an issue with a site? - don't play on it! lol


Out of all the players they could suggest, why did they assume it was Martin? That's pretty specific...

Now is your chance to prove to us that you guys weren't colluding, cheating, bumhunting etc. Grind it back it up on twitch/YouTube etc. and if it happens again then we will all know with 100% certainty that GGpoker is full of **** about their good/bad pro.

nobody plays this many tables anymore mate, if they do they probably dont win

I dont think they actually thought Martin was Diego, they could clearly see that they both played in different computers, and as I said in my post, Martin's account was created while Diego's was still active and he actually played some while Diego was still playing. As for why do I think they believed they could get away with not only banning Martin for winning but also confiscate his balance accused of being Diego, there are 3 reasons:

- Both accounts were under the same affiliate
- They both live in Argentina and in Buenos Aires, even though they live about 30 miles away from each other, I'm not sure if they can see that or not
- Martin moved up to higher stakes after Diego was banned because we started staking him.

How can you actually suggest that they deposit money into the site and start grinding again and paying rake to these people to maybe see if this time they dont take their balance cause they decided to? is this for real?

Note that I never said Diego or Martin didnt bumhunt. Even more, I'd guarantee you Martin didnt play a hand without a rec at the table. He was a 100nl grinder staked to play 1knl, do you think we would have staked him to battle regs? You can make an argument that it's fair to ban regulars for bumhunting, and you could even be right, but there is no way yo justify taking a player's balance because he won it playing only good games. If Martin had lost his $3k and he had kept depositing I'm pretty damn sure they werent gonna ban him for bumhunting.

No bumhunting is in the TOS, break the rules and get caught then come here and complain? How about just follow the rules or go play somewhere else.....

They are trying to get rid of the predatory behaviour most pros make their living off...

You seem to have a pathological need to repeatedly post that at every opportunity. Please take a break.

In his defence ...he’s repeating it because his point is being repeatedly ignored, and it’s kind of important

Thanks Xenoblade... I learned something new. Makes sense I guess.

Partially serious, mostly sarcasm. I am sure they would be compensated by poker players as a thank you.

Yea, I am sure their is a lot of things you didn't say. lol

There are sites who take advantage of all players and there are professionals who take advantage of some players. No doubt being targeted by a site for targeting players that meet your criteria for a "good game" could be seen as bad. But if it violates T&Cs (hard to plead ignorance) then really your just gambling on them not taking action.

I sympathise but it would be foolish to believe that most banned or mid-high stakes professional poker players are honest, trustworthy, by the book players...there have been questionable tactics being exposed over the years.
So blaming sites seems abit one sided...

*EDIT*
@DickTracy probably spamming...

Gg is a joke. Every night the last week+ a 500/1k and 500/1k/2k games have been streamed on twitch.

Guess what, all 6 max tables were 5 pros, one VIP. When the VIP left they all quit within 1 round. Every single time. Like 45 times in a row.

They are laughable inconsistent, break the rules as many times as possible, we wont stop you ever, and dont cash out or we will take that $ away bc we now see what we want to ban you for.

The tweet about bringing banned players back, holy ****. Hey bob, we banned you for winning $, pocketed it too, but we want you back, deposit more $ and come play again, we wont ban you when you try and withdrawal... psych, yes we will hahaha, lolololol, sucker.

This site seems to be a pyramid scheme, that players keep throwing money into. Ffs run away from this site immediately.

So do people expect game dynamics to magically change? Like somehow it will not be 1 fish and 5 regs 90 percent of the time? Why argue for a site to have more freedom(less blowback) to have a nebulous rule to confiscate winning players balances and accounts? Its pretty crazy. Their definitions are basically an unavoidable aspect of trying to play multiple cash game tables. They can just tweak whenever they want to. It no longer becomes in their best interest to cater to ANY winning player because people are so degen they want to ensure they can only lose. For a game where the goal was supposed to be making money, it seems like a weird take to encourage. Banning a seating script is one thing, but if you have a lobby interface, you can't start banning people who sit at tables fast.

nice to see some of us using their brains!!

besides 3-4 shills here most of us see the problems with GG. it is ridiculous when these guys say: "then do not play on GG" - guess what none of us playing there. though we want to warn others it is better to stay away!

It’s always gross to see this, but perhaps nose bleeds run so infrequent that GG thinks there’s not much they can do about the hunting at these stakes.

Also perhaps those involved have cleanish records when it comes to predatory behaviour through the lower stakes

In short ....I would think that how unacceptable predatory behaviour is defined would be partly aggregate based. Your casual observations of small samples would be fairly worthless

Lol. Guess you are right.

The second the VIP leaves they talk in chat on who gets the last button. Every single time. Everyone sees the chat box, like 800 to 1600 people on twitch. Its top tier poker players playing vs a whale. In the TOS, which they are happy to use to pocket 6 figures multiple times, this action is prohibited. Period.

I dont give a **** what they do or how they want their site to run. I just dont care. But you cant steal from the players and I have concluded that they have done this multiple times. Steal.

Ban the bots, cheaters(colluders), and dont return the $.
And
Ban the bumhunters, give them their money back.

Gg does not do that.

The shills in this thread are gross.

@happytobehear......

Most of the players in those games are using their real names and many have played together in real life with many of those same whales in more private live games. The pros are actually bringing the liquidity for those games to run for the whale and the whale wants to be playing at those stakes. I've watched the games run a few times and often the whale will dictate whether they straddle or not, etc. It's the whale's game in a sense and once he quits the pros drop out as well but it's not some sort of planned bum hunting of that whale. He knows most of the players play professionally there and knows many of them in real life. Sure he'd probably prefer playing Bill Perkins and other similar higher stake whales but they know what they are getting into in those games at those stakes. They want that action and without the pros joining the game might not run at those stakes.

@Arggg93........

I think they believe Diego was playing on the Martin account once you staked Martin and that account started playing higher stake games. It's entirely possible that both Diego and Martin are two different players that were at some point both playing on GGpoker and then after Diego was banned on his account took over the Martin account in some way.

They should have to prove it was actually Diego playing on that account in some way to confiscate the funds but it would look fishy on their end that the Diego account gets banned and then money is transferred through the same affiliate that Diego uses to the Martin account and the Martin account shortly thereafter starts playing higher stakes instead of his usual lower stake games and crushing them.

It doesnt matter if it looked fishy or not, they should have to prove what they believe in order to take close to $18k!! I'm also argentinian, I played 5/10 at the time and still do and if I had made an account to play in this site I would have used the same affiliate because at the time he was the only one that we knew. Now there are quite a few, but back then he was it. Considering these factors clearly if I had made an account and ran well they would have most likely closed my account, steal my balance and accuse me of being Diego's third account. It's ridiculous and it should NOT happen

How did Martin originally deposit on the site? Was it through the same affiliate that he later used for the $3K? Was he still playing his normal stakes up until the point of you staking him?

I was agreement that they should have to prove that it wasn't Martin actually playing to confiscate funds. As long as the IP, login information,etc for Martin stayed similar and he wasn't like suddenly playing from a different location or Diego's prior location just using the same affiliate and moving up stakes shouldn't be anywhere near enough to confiscate funds obv.

If Diego was playing across other networks, etc during this same time frame from his IP location maybe you can somehow find a way get that information and show that to GGpoker and it would go along way to making it far less likely that Diego was ever playing on Martin's account. I know that shouldn't be something you should have to do and it should be put on them to prove it wasn't Martin but since you are all here now with nothing to lose it might be worth a shot.(if possible in some way, idk)

As you very well said that shouldnt be something that we'd have to do and it should be on them to prove it wasnt Martin playing on his account, BUT as we said two years ago, and as we said again now, we would be more than happy to colaborate in that or any other way that they or us could think to prove that Martin did nothing to deserve having his balance taken. But they didnt want to do any of that back then nor now. What good is it that Diego tries to remember what games he could have been playing at the time, contact those rooms, get that information, only to have GG tell us again that they dont care?

can we immortalize the "you can apply to be unbanned" tweets? straight up funniest thing i've ever seen a "business" do

also it would be a shame if this melted down (scandals/liquidity issues) to such a degree that it dragged down the WSOP brand which i've always regarded with some folksy prestige. you know, the brand GG needs to stuff in its own Twitter name to grant itself any legitimacy whatsoever