Oh this should be fun. So as long as a country is bringing in a net positive balance poker is an economic positive? Is it possible that all countries are net positive? If not how can poker itself be a positive since its a net negative in some countries? Regarding money spent, can poker be a net positive considering that all the money a poker player spends would be spent anyway if it never touched his hands and stayed with the loser? How is that a positive especially considering the player himself added nothing else to an economy other than money spent?

hahaha well I was going to do something similar but you are way better at it



I wonder if it’s possible to like poker as a game and also hold a disdain for it as a career? Guess not aye. Everyone wishes they could reach that pinnacle of career development. The “poker pro”. Gosh I wish I was good enough at cards for that

Obviously sites can do whatever they want in regards to their T&Cs, so you take a risk when you play on any site that they may not act in good faith, but in saying that its worth noting that nothing beats good marketing...

All these "shady" actions ultimately mean nothing when it comes to players looking to play poker. Seeing Daniel Negreanu, the wsop and people they know promoting how good GGpoker is, trumps these ambiguous, sporadic, "technical" issues that "won't" effect them.

The fact that Negreanu and WSOP are such power house brands that most people trust to not let themselves be associated with entities that would tarnish their reputation- GGpoker/various skins not paying out "professionals" ultimately just reinforces the sites position in the industry as a place for recreational players - "Play GGpoker, we don't want professionals to beat you either!"

Of course that is until they improve their game, and start winning ...

It is an economic positive simply because people wanna spend money on it and who the **** are you to dictate which forms of entertainment are acceptable. Poker pros are a natural by product of the fact that people like this game.

I think that people who follow sports are ******ed and would walk right past cristiano ronaldo, that doesnt mean I think he is worthless. Even though a world would be a better place if people didnt waste resources on running around chasing round objects (hyperbole, dont quote me, I dont give a **** what people like and most of my closest friends follow sports). And if you think that passively watching sports is more worthwhile way to spend your time than playing a game that tests a human psyche as much as poker does, then I dont know what to tell you

Many Players say GG is shady, GG says many players are cheaters.

Who to believe?

You look at the evidence and choose accordingly.

I guess its possible but highly illogical.
You know the saying, dont hate the player, hate the game.
People play for a lot of money. Ofc people are gonna get good at it.

Or people play for a little bit of money or no money at all, ever heard of Zynga?

Maybe even some people who already have money might even want to just play for fun? Crazy eh?

easy to answer. you should believe to both side.
facts:
- GG is shady
- ppl try to cheat (using RTA, illegal HUD, scripts, collusion, charts, running bots etc...)

As long as it is possible to make a living in a poker game, people will do it. Even at microstakes you'll find pros from countries with low cost of living.
Imo you cant love poker, and hate the way the ecosystem fundamentally operates. It is part of the game, bumpnrun hates poker, just hasn't realized it yet.

Yes ofc people can play for fun. I played for fun for many years before playing for profit. Instead of being angry at the players who were better than me i put the work in to get better. Crazy eh?

Not everyone who plays poker has aspirations of being a poker pro, and on top of that, that’s who keeps the games running. So if those people leave then what do you have? A bunch of regs paying rake with a few winners and a bunch of losers.

Not every rec feels butt hurt when they lost a pot to a better player. Most understand they are gambling. They are playing for fun, like you said before.

There will always be winners in poker unless you rake it to death. You cant just keep having new ban waves every time someone starts winning money.

It’s a private company, they are legally allowed to turn away your business if they want to as far as I know. But they have said they aren’t doing that and are just banning cheaters and bum hunters. Which regs and recs should be happy with.

If others are being falsely accused then there’s where we start to have problems.

I agree they can do whatever they want.
Just don't agree with their bumhunting stance, as i dont think they've ever clarified what is and isnt a ban-able offense (because its almost impossible).
Feels like they keep it vague so they can do whatever they want.

It’s not very difficult for a site to go through a players hand and determine wether they are bum hunting or not and every poker pro knows what it is.

Other sites don’t even care so if it’s even part of your strategy I’d probably not risk it, but seems for others the games are just to good so they risk it.

Ok, so what exactly would you define bumhunting as?
Specify exactly where it crosses the line of game selecting to a ban-able offense.
If you were writing TOS for GG, how would you word it.
Keep in mind every player who goes against what you define it as has to be banned.
Even if they are a fish who is trying to play with a bigger fish.
You could say losing players are immune to bumhunting penalties, but it’s poker. Good players lose over long stretches, and bad players win over long stretches sometimes. Can’t always tell.
It’s not as clear as it seems. It’s much easier to just say ‘bumhunting’ is bannable offense, never define in and use it as an excuse to do whatever you want.

Basically they don’t want you targeting players, at least that’s my guess so if you are following a player and every time sits a table u sit beside him or he leaves and you sit out, that would be an offence, they have warned all players banned before they were banned, they even let players keep winnings up until the ban afaik.

Remember first GG is a private company, second you are not an employee they provide a service and you are a customer. Just because other sites allow you to do different things doesn’t mean GG needs to as well.

GG is trying to cater to the recs so they come back and have a more enjoyable time as they burn they money to rake, they don’t want leeches targeting other players at every opportunity.

Like I said before pros know what bum hunting is, and if they don’t they that’s their problem, not GG.

Analogy would be blackjack casinos can ban you for counting cards without much hard evidence however both the player and the casino knows when someone is counting cards...

So why doesn’t GG define it as something like that. Or define it in detail at all? Even if you think they are operating in good faith, you have to admit that the current system could easily be abused by GG to ban winning regs for no reason other then they think it will help their bottom line.
I already agree they have the right to run their business as they want, I just don’t think it’s good for the game.

Does a casino define clearly what counting cards is?

Bum hunting isn’t black or white so it’s hard to define and don’t forget they have been warning players and even after bans have allowed players to keep their money and just told them to take their business elsewhere.

I don’t really necessarily think it’s fair but i think it’s better then doing nothing like other sites

Doesn’t matter, I’m not arguing the legality of it.
Just pointing out is a horrible system that can be abused. I also don’t believe it is good for longevity of the games/their site.

Agree with this and will end it here.....

Ever loved a movie and hated the ending? Loved a product but hated one feature of it? Loved a person but hated one aspect of their personality?

I love the game of poker, and don’t like the way professionals conduct themselves, and think it’s a stupid career choice. The fact you think this is impossible speaks to some sort of delusion of grandeur for grinding out a living on a card game

People playing professionally is such an obvious by-product of what poker is that it doesn’t make sense to like one and hate the other.

I’d understand if you didn’t like certain pros because they are extreme bum hunters or whatever the case. But just grouping everyone in together makes you seem bitter.

is bumhunting not exactly what ggpoker is doing ?
selecting the winning players they ban, and selecting the players who dont win or cash out much to remain on the site,so the money goes around in circles untill it all ends up with them via rake.
looks like bumhunting to me.

Until the US government got involved, no one had serious problems withdrawing their money from FT and AP/UB despite their mismanagement of player funds.

In contrast, GGpoker doesn't even need the feds to syphon your account dry.

What is even more amusing is that Daniel Negreanu was constantly attacking Phil Hellmuth and bashing AP/UB for their shady dealings, yet 10 years later, he is working for a company worse than AP/UB. This man is a slippery snake with no moral standards.