I agree with you that bumhunting and table selecting are 2 different things the problem i see here is every peoples will have different definitions of thoses things and GG consider bumhunting the same as table selecting imo. For me table selection is just chosing to play on a table or not and bumhunting is everything that will affect the game in a bad way.

For example you sit in a game then the fish bust and you leave 2 orbits after he leaves your a bumhunter when this is only table selection imo.

I would have no problem if the policy was clear as for example you cant table camp, stay sit out on the table when the fish is busto but still on the table ect. But at this point the policy is just so grey that it could include any aspect of leaving a table where your not the target on the table aka they can use this to ban any winning players if they chose to.

yea, this. GG has made it clear they don't want winners. so if you intend to make a living, go elsewhere.

Or you could put enough effort into your chosen profession so that you do not have to resort to scummy unseemly behavior that destroys the game as a whole to win. If it is your chosen profession why do you have no concern for the health of the game?

what you mean? bum hunting?

well, it has been rightfully stated that GGs T+C are purposefully vague and it's very obvious that they also have double standards in regards to predatory behaviour (see high stakes bum hunting).
As an example GG support has stated that colour coding can be regarded as predatory behaviour (too lazy to dig up the thread), so it's fair to say that they can and will just ban you whenever they chose to.

This may be a naive question but couldn't GG remove the facilities of the software that enable bumhunting?
It's like they have these ways you can track or mark players in their software, yet they punish people for using them.

Also, i don't like the term bum, i'm just **** at poker ok.

You're assuming GG will only punish the most egregious repeat bumhunters who all they do is bumhunt 24/7, use seating scripts, etc. Their rules are completely arbitrary and you can't even appeal if you think there was a mistake. You're putting all the trust into the person that takes all your money to determine if it was fair that they took your money. Hmm, I wonder if there is a conflict of interest there? So change my initial analogy to the whale at the casino happened to do this twice and was notified by an email after the first time that he may or may not have read, and that would be grounds to take it all.

Apologies for offending you, good job you so thick skinned

Fyi, i was actually taking about myself !!!

I emailed GG to enquire about all this no response. The issue is what counts as bum hunting, I mean the fact is I have consistently been strongly beating £5 and £10 games MTTS.
If I never moved up technically that is arguably bum hunting since I am deliberately playing a lower calibre of player over and over. I am shortly going to be moving up on the site I am rolled to and not on the ones i am not. should I beat £20 and £30 games I will keep playing these and eventually take a shot at £50 and £100 same goes again if I can beat these mtts I try higher stakes again if not I play the highest level I can beat.

The issue is Unless I am literally one of the very best players in the world, unless I just throw my money away I am bumhunting by some definition of the word.

If I ever do hit the pinnacle of poker and become among the very in the world then I risk getting banned and having funds seized under accusations of using hand charts or the likes.

I have been tempted to play on GG for some time but ave been concerned about all this.

So I emailed my concerns to them if they ignore my email then I have acknowledged in writing that I am aware the terms and conditions may allow them to seize my money for only playing low stake MTTS which makes their site unplayable on.

If they perm ban ( i did mention I am a winning player) the decision is made for me.

If however they respond to my concerns and tell me its nothing to worry about then I can retain that email for legal purposes and play on their site.

the decision of whether I put any money on and play on GG will depend entirely on exactly what sort of response my email gets.

why would u play a hand without a fish?

You sound paranoid and I don’t even think you know what bumhunting or predatory behaviour is.

They aren’t going after MTT player beating $5 $10 or $50 games.

They are going after guys chasing around fish on cash game tables. Anyone who’s been around online poker for a while knows exactly what this is and why it’s been ruining the games for years.

If it gives you anxiety that it’s in their TOS then find another room where you can play without having a panic attack.

my email was sent to them 21 hours ago and I have not had a reply yet. If they reply and say I have nothing to worry about then I have that in writing and can make a deposit and play there when I am ready.

If they do not reply I can never play there because I arguably have something in writing now which states I acknowledge only playing small stake mtts can give them right to seize my roll.

Their response or lack of response to my email will make the decision for me. I believe they will never reply to be deliberately vague. that gives them in their eyes complete control and power but this means I can never play their because if I ever win a large amount they will seize the lot.

I already have 3 poker sites I play on and am looking for a fourth my girlfriend remains convinced me playing on GG will end in tears.

I do not have a normal girlfriend in terms of partners attitudes to poker.

you may be used to you must stop gambling blah blah the house always wins. I have the exact opposite my girlfriend has watched me go from a roll of £200 to several thousand gone from struggling to crushing and now all the time she is saying You need to be on this you got to take this opportunity. She will say something if I go to long without playing she takes a great interest is my biggest fan and fully encourages me to play all the time and starts nagging if I am not playing/ studying the game enough.

She has googled many poker sites and she thinks my fourth and fifth sites should be be party poker and 888. I thought GG would have lots of big tournaments filled with fish she thinks they hate all profitable players and will seize my entire bankroll.

So I said I would email GG and depending on how they reply that will make my decision for me. 21 hours no reply. not looking good.

^^^^

You aren’t they type of player they are going after. But even if you were they would warn you first and if you continue they they ban you and so far have allowed players at this point still to cash out their balance. The games are great there and the fact they are going after players with predatory behaviour is one of the reasons.

They don’t want players to be targeted by a bunch of sharks as soon as they sit, move a table are fallowed around then when they stand up the sharks all sit out etc

Also, apparently they ban some winning regs and say they bun hunt but it’s actually their choice who they allow play on their site. The same goes for a casino, a casino can ban you for winning to much on table games and have the right to refuse their business.

It’s a private owned site they can allow who to play who they choose.

From what you’ve described you wouldn’t have anything to worry about but like I said if you don’t feel comfortable playing there, you probably shouldn’t.

Fwiw I enjoy playing there, the games are good, and I’m not worried about being banned.

If I got banned right now no harm I have deposited no money and never had an account there. If I got banned after opening an account but was allowed to cash out everything I had won, then no issue.

The issue is If I deposit several hundred grind this up to several thousand and then get the win confiscated or say I bink a big tournament and win 5/6 figures or more and get that seized that will be the issue.

as stated my decision to play on GG will depend on how they respond to my email. if they do not respond to my email then it answers my question in a bad way. I will not play on a site I cannot trust.

I am hoping I get a reply which reassures me because then I can play on a very soft site but time will tell if they do not reply to my email then it kind of confirms what the people saying dont play there are saying. and Thus my play will go elsewhere I need a fourth site party poker and 888 are options.

Could just not agree to the ToS when making your account and therefore not playing on the site. But you probably only read the ToS after the fact

I do not have an account so I have not made an account yet I thought I had made that clear.

As everbody understands it's ok to ban real bumhunters but the issue is if you absolutely don't bumhunt and just play high volume with good winrate for good LB and RB and then get banned for it then it is a problem IMO and this the thing they are doing and obviously it don't apply to superstar HS names, because all the 50/100+ run around fishes only. Like you will never see Limitless banned, because he is good for the business, even if he would only bumhunt, which he basically is doing because he is better than others

But as we see it's mostly cash game problem, NL500+, because in rush you can't bumhunt and I don't even see why anyone should play reg tables when rush is just as fishy and juicy nice LB bonus every day if you put in even like 4 hours every day.

One reg i've met irl have won low/mid six figures from MTT's in ~2 years and absolutely no warnings/bans, but sickest 500z stars crusher who has a blog on runitonce with username Onkleb wrote that GG told him he is not welcomed to play 14 days prior and can cash out his roll. Someone mentioned the DTO guy getting banned from MTT's and it was because he was affiliated with the RTAsolverman who played up to nl10k dont remember the name anymore, not because he was winning alot.

Most guys here don't ever have to worry about it unless they play nl200+? reg tables with sick upswing or are sick crushers. the bans are still very low in numbers, maybe few posts pop up every few months about bans, if we check the NL1k, 2k, 5k, the same names have been for months and months and haven't heard about too many bans there.

Imo if you are already very good NL200+ reg, winning alot or getting your first warnings you should start manuevering and streaming, looking under the table deals with GG directly for example stream like 75% of your sessions on twitch, or play percentage of your yearly winnings or whatever they be happy with, it's business and you have to think like a business man for your own good.

but the guys who are just super good and antisocial and want to print and play 200hrs a month crushing regs and fishes and not promoting the site or the game, yeah well I wouldn't want them on my site too taking the money of the system. Take it as the GG is the master and the players are the slaves, you just have to please the master and do as good as you can or else you can play on party or stars or acr or whatever sites there is.

im just a low stakes zoom grinder and slight winner so i personally dont have to think about those problems never ever lol.

Sorry, my comment was aimed at those with accounts complaining

This I agree with that it is totally scummy and they should be banned for it. More sites need to follow this rule.

Think you guys are missing the point. They are banning the biggest winners from the site and using 'bum hunting' as the cover up for the reason to do it.

They dont give 2 ****s if your bum hunting and a small winning reg just as long as you dont win too much money.

1nvoker was playing Stefan11222 HU on multiple tables and got banned for 'bum hunting'. Yet Stefan is one of the best players in the world. This being the issue.

Some sites have been doing this for years. Banning winning players or limiting their games they could play. Nothing new really.

No sites confiscated balances before GG afaik.

The idiots are the people who think these sites exists so pros can make a living. They don't. While i don't agree with seizing money for bum hunting (which i don't think has actually happened) if they want to ban someone for doing so that's fine. Sure I'd love a site with low rake that spends a ton of money on marketing to bring me droolers to play with but that's not realisitic. GG is clearly aimed at recs and it's a profitable business model for them.

to not get banned and funds confiscated

sixfour said it well, and the title of this thread is wrong

gg isnt banning players for game selecting (allowed practices where focussing on getting good tables) but for bum hunting (illegal practices to get only fish, like table camping, immediately sitting out when fish does & joining tables but leaving before bb comes when there is no fish)

and banning players (and taking their funds) who do bumhunt regularly is something i applaud

there's still an element of good faith tho, like you agree to follow the rules that have been decided to be for the betterment of the site ecosytem, and they agree to create/police them in a fair and just way


if a company puts they get to confiscate your money if your desk doesnt face true north in the ToS then you shouldnt look at that and be like "wElL YOu DiDnT nEeD tO aGReE"

dont get caught up in the hyperbole, the point is they are purposefully vague to give them a disturbing amount of leeway to the point they may be freerolling ppl to an extent

Well I emailed the following to GG.
It has been three days now I guess I sent it on Friday so have to allow that they may not have got to it yet but it has been three days now. I am expecting no reply at all and I think I want to break down to you guys.

If they do not reply and clarify then terms are vague and they retain the right to ban my account once created and seize funds at any moment.

Guys they wont say that MTT players are safe from this, let me clear it is impossible to bum hunt in MTTS but the fact is that their is not an agreed upon universal line on what bum hunting is.

some might say it is persistently stalking the one same player over and over whenever they come on cash tables or only waiting for complete fish.

I have played quite a few heads up hypers there are different attitudes I have seen from different profitable players.
1. never sit first only register when they see a complete and utter total fish most would class this as bum hunting
2. sit first and rematch weak players whilst quitting of competent players
3 same as before but rematch anyone except the best regs
4. same as before but rematch absolutely everyone and go after everyone no exceptions this is their lobby and they will fight to the death against anyone who tries to share it or be there they will never back down to anyone.

Now pretty sure whether we think it should be allowed or not we would all agree that 1 is bumhunting. Most us would say that 2 or 3 is okay and should be allowed where I would assume there would be some debate and split between which it should be 2 or 3.
a few of us might insist it should be 4 and only 4.

However here is the thing 4 is BUMHUNTING!!!!!!!!!! under some definition.
maybe they should be playing higher stakes maybe they are game selecting which is bumhunting according to some by not moving up stakes as weaker players at low stakes. I can absolutely crush £5 $5 or 5 euro heads up hyper games on any site I have ever tried.

after that some sites I can beat £10/$10/euro games some sites the top regs are sitting on the 10s all the way through to 100s and i would get owned at 10s some sites I can beat anything up to the 20s but get owned at the 20s. Is this bumhunting by sticking only to 5s and 10s? you may say not but others will say yes.

mtts if I play low sake MTTs to avoid tougher fields at mid stakes or high stake mtts that is arguably bumhunting the fact that GG will not reply to my email and address it shows they want to be deliberately vague so they retain the right to ban an confiscate funds at their own discretion.

According to GG BANKROLL MANAGEMENT CAN BE DEFINED AS BUM HUNTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyone who feels safe on that site is clearly deluded if they respond to my email in the end i will point that out and post it here but their lack of response confirms that.

You may think bumhunting as you define it is bad and should be banned/punished the issue is others define it differently and GG have deliberately gone about been vague so they can define anyone as a bunhunter and seize/confiscate funds from anyone!!!!