I don't object to them having the rules per se, I object to the lack of advertising. These are such onerous terms in what's ultimately a consumer contract that they need to be clearly communicated to be justifiable. The terms basically define 'cheating' as 'winning', so I'd be perfectly fine with a flashing red light when a person attempted to deposit saying 'if you win money, we have an unfettered discretion to choose to seize any of your funds' - which is essentially what this is.

People complain about the 'small print' often, but it's rarely actually egregious. This is.

I probably agree with you but I am not sure how this works in practicality. They obviously aren't going to want to advertise this to the general public but I think anyone who takes the game semi-seriously understands the overal stradegy. Even if some people aren't aware and end up playing on the site. They operate on a strike policy where you get a warning and a chance to withdraw funds and asked to not play on the site again and pointed towards the terms and conditions.

This is why regulators are important IMO - it would be nice if the online gaming world was more located in legitimate markets so consumers could be confident of enforcing rights against providers.

So which is it, you are getting ban letters from ggnetwork in 2016 but you are unaware natural8 and ggnetwork are the same when you make your deposit or the unmentioned account was a ggnetwork account and was banned at another time?

Yeah, well it is of course the dream to play on proper regulared sites in some kind of world pool and have poker people with integrity running it to give trust in the site itself like would be the case with RIO which would just be the cherry on top. Not the real world though unfortunately and probably never will be now while poker is still alive to play online.

Well what is the fairest way to deal with it then?

Both parties made mistakes so a compromise has to be made on both sides of it

He gets his deposit back and the site distributes the money to players in games he has played in. There is no compromise where the site should get to keep any of the money. Even though technically they are still up a boatload on the rake. Great for this round but I still wonder about what happens in general in these situations.

I still have yet to see anyone say they have ever gotten a refund from GG due to any of these confiscations. That is the most concerning thing about all this. If this a practice that is outed on site it naturally follows, then what other things happen on the site that we don't klnow about.

If that's your N8 account, you claim to have no knowledge that N8 and GG are the same network, but the email is clearly from GG security. Which is it?

have you ever wondered how many players are playing on gg losing money to rake over and over again that keep depositing and are allowed to keep playing even though they shouldn't be?

just bizarre that OP was allowed to keep depositing without question but when he goes to withdraw all of a sudden there is an issue.

They have a responsible gaming facility on the site as well that doesn't work how it is intended or should work. I am pretty sure this is another very shady practice on the site.

nothing converts deposits into $ for a site faster than the banhammer on winning players and taking their entire rolls right as they are about to withdraw.

Agree with gazzi. How do you know the Germans aren't around? I'm here. You don't know who's from where.
You are just a jealous hater.

The guy deserves his money. Talk to Joey Ingram.
He fixed the last issue with a 300k badbeat jackpot at betonline. Stick together Germans. But it looks like the ball is rolling already with Steffen posting here.

Op try to get all of them together and you will achieve it imo. Try contacting the gg guys. It's a lot. Easterdamz, negreanu, fedor, buelero etc.

Gl it's time consuming I feel bad for you but but with it.
It's for a fair fight. Contact me if you need help.
I'm German too playing high stakes. (Not as high as you)

It’s always the same story with this “they stole my money” stories. New account, who never reads the other threads, has no idea why they were banned. They reason, of course, that it must be because they win too much. Their stories fall apart so fast when asked for a modicum of evidence to support their version of the truth.

Here is diddis initial version:

After the first few sessions, with no warning, Natural8 told me to take my money and not play on their network anymore.... - I asked, but they wouldn't give me a clear statement on either what they meant by that, or what I'd done wrong.

This then morphs into the logical assumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCleese
Is the reason you were banned on natural8 simply that you were obviously a pro and winning money?

They never told me winning was the problem. But i assume that was the reason yes.

When pushed further, the OP finds the email banning him but does not share it in its entirety.

This screenshot shows the "reason" i was banned in 2016. It´s from the email i got from N8 back then. After i asked what has been wrong, they never replied again until now.
There was no cheating, no shady stuff or whatever else going on, just me not fitting in their envirement.......

[/QUOTE]

Now he has finally provides the entire email:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/c...650af487ad.png

It, of course lists a reason for his banning- preditory acts. And it warns him about playing there again. Topped off with this is from ggnetwork, not natural8.

But it’s not his fault, he did nothing wrong.

Alright, he created a second account to bum hunt games. Let's say that is true. I am not saying it is but let's say it is. What happened to the money? That has become the important point in this thread.

So he To-biasedly reported what actually happened.

And him starting this chat on here seems like him having a free punt at creating some negative PR for GG poker to use as leverage against them.

For sure their list of poker ecology rules is much too long, with a few of them that should be on a minor penalty list not on the confiscation/closure list, and each thing on the list needs a lot more detail and clarification for it, but the OP looks like he can't be trusted, based on his claim of not knowing about the connection between Natural8 and GG poker and him conveniently forgetting to state up front that he was banned for predatory behaviour, so why should we trust him on anything else, or trust his friends who have come forward on this chat and vouched for his integrity.

What they most likely mean is that he has integrity when it comes to transactions and his word within his own circle of fellow poker players. That's not integrity, it's just decent behaviour within a very limited sphere.

He owes a big apology to GG poker and to everyone in this chat who he was trying to pull the wool over the eyes of.

How much are gg paying you?? Maybe we have found where the money went!!

Ya for a lot of people this is as far as their level of thought or reasoning will allow them to go. Nothing else to discuss for if one is going to choose to not fully remember the association between Nat8 and GG, then surely they are never to be trusted in any regard on any other matter until the end of time.

One more reminder.

I have no idea why it's such a big deal to some that OP and a couple other posters in this thread are German.

if i do a search on my mails i can provide you the email that they send me back at 2016-17 (dont sure) and they clearly told me that dont want me to their site because i am a winner player.In fact those days back 2016 the game at gg was so soft to the point that it would rediculous to bumhunt anyone.If i remember correct biggest plo game was 5-10 and later one table 25-50.

Bumhunting: A highstakes bullshit in my opinion.Top regs invented the phrase to take advantage of worse regs.Professional poker player is when a player realizes that whether the benefit is worthwhile in relation to time or not or even if he loses out on it.

the point is if he was not supposed to be playing on the site for whatever reason the site should be banning him instantly and not letting him play A SINGLE HAND. They should not be letting him pay tens of thousands in rake and depositing over and over again then to only ban him when he goes to withdraw. This is a complete scam and an utter joke. It is the site freerolling against its customer. Laughable how people think this behaviour is justified to be honest.

I don't want to make any false accusations but I played nl1000 - nl10000 against 'BetFIanders' from Austria..in 2019.

Ironically I remember him because I stopped playing on GG after I got a message from GGNetwork Security for bumhunting him and another top reg .

​9. USE OF PROXIES AND VPNs

obv more than 50% on wsop did it i think + bunch of well known pros...
why not banned? all freerolling now?!
rule is rule from point 1 to 100, its obv only as winningplayer u g0t probz with GG


​4. BUMHUNTING

last seen yest. night leon @ plo all bumhunter leave table instantly, recorded from enough twitch guys. nothing happend ...

I have no association with GG poker, any of their skins or anyone connected with them. My only association is with the truth and with calling out the BS of these pros who ply their trade in a certain way, and then cry foul when they are busted.

They are also the worst losers I have ever seen when they get outplayed in a live tournament, which I have done to them on a few occasions. They just storm off like a child in a playground whose had his ball taken away.

Long live Daniel Negreanu, and good luck to GG poker in improving the areas that have been discussed in this chat. They are absolutely right to eradicate any type of cheats from their site, and to ban and punish players who are overly aggressively predatory, but I think they need to do it with a lot more finesse and with careful thought because I for one wouldn't touch their cash games with a barge pole and if I do open an account and play MTTs I would be scared to play any with a big prize pool so would only play ones with a <$10K prize pool to limit my downside should I be mistakenly identified as using any kind of playing help such as a pre flop chart, which I don't.

I'm sorry but responses like this are why I said to disregard new accounts that were made.