Quote:
Originally Posted by NikAirballFanClub
Anyone who thinks PLO is Bingo, will probably never, ever get, that it simply isn't.
Even in games where players are sitting shallow, or games where players are sitting deep but there are maniacs who make it mega expensive to see a flop, there is still a lot of skill required to decide the correct plays.
The question I get asked most often by NLHE poker playing friends who are now playing some PLO is how they should play against such maniacs.
There *are* absolute correct answers to how, that relate to equities, dead money considerations, stack depths, buy in strategy, protection, and player profiling.
So even when it is "bingo" there is a huge amount of skill, knowhow and experience required in order to make the correct decisions.
For the most part, PLO cash games are not like that, they tend to play 100 to 500 BBs deep, and in these games you also need a wide range of skills and knowhow to master them.
Pre flop decisions are the easiest part of PLO. Not easy, but easiest, compared to post flop.
But I still see many players in PLO make bad pre flop decisions, because they don't fully account for stack depths, which are so important because you need to think ahead to what the SPR will be OTF. Also very important pre flop, even when deep stacked, are dead money and potential protection considerations.
Once you start playing higher and/or against very good players, you do then have to also start thinking about ranges, particularly in big spots on the turn and river, so in that respect PLO can be just as complex regarding bluffing and sniffing out bluffs as NLHE.
You also use blockers/have blockers used against you in PLO, again the higher you play and the better the opponent you play against, the more blockers become an important factor.
PLO is very multi layered and I stick by one of my earlier points, which is that you have to be naturally gifted in math and logic to have a chance of mastering it.
Board coverage of your hand and position are also huge in PLO pre flop. Not going to explain why ITT because it would be tapping the tank hard if I did.
For me it keeps coming down to this, if you only play the best hands in PLO, and get 4 callers, and you're all in pre, at best you're like 25% to win and 75% to lose, it doesnt matter how tight you are, when it's 4 ways, you're always a dog. Even if you wait for the flop and have tons of equity, so does everyone else, and you cant get them off it due to "Well, I'm priced in now, it's $500 more to win $2500" or whatever have to call pot odds they're getting.
You can say, "but I got it in with the most equity" well BFD, you're still a huge dog to win pretty much every time due to the fact no one folds.
Thus, it's bingo! If you only played AA in NLHE and everytime you did, you were all in pre against 4 others, you're still gonna go broke. That's just a mathematical fact. If you're always a dog to win, you cant win long term. This fact is literally how Vegas was built.
All your "board coverage" and "position" and "stack depths" "spr" etc. it doesnt mean squat when you're staring at 3 people all in and you have the best hand pre, you're still a massive dog to win the pot over the other three. And that's the majority of the hands.
Now, maybe that's just because Chicago PLO is just a bunch of idiots, I can see that. Maybe at the higher stakes there is real play, but can we at least agree, that at the lower limit local room PLO games, it's just an idiot-palooza shovefest? Where to see your edge show up you'd have to play a few years to get there?
So I'm willing to extend the olive branch this way, in low limit PLO games, you're playing bingo, at the higher far more serious stakes, it's very different. That's the best I can do.
And to you PLO crushers, congrats! I'm happy for you.