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Old 07-18-2008, 04:51 PM   #26
LeapFrog
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amulet View Post
This should deeply concern Fulltilt's owners because less then a year ago FT was almost even with PS.
Care to either show some numbers backing up this statement or retract it?

Last edited by LeapFrog; 07-18-2008 at 04:57 PM. Reason: too many eithers
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:56 PM   #27
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

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Originally Posted by Lucypher View Post
PokerStars PWNs Full Tilt Poker. 100%
Thank you for your contribution to 2+2.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:01 PM   #28
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

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Originally Posted by amulet View Post
Responses to the above posts.

I have no vendetta against FT, many of the people who run it are friends. However, I have had private conversations, and now I have gone public with my concerns about management.

Poker Stars has shown dramatic growth in comparison to Fulltilt over the last year. That is somewhat alarming.

FT is growing overseas, but needs and wants to grow at a faster rate. They are in the process of launching a new initiative aimed at the overseas market.

Royce is correct, I believe that if many of their shareholders were not the sponsored pros, the management would be questioned. If it had professional money mangers invested, or was public, the accountability would be different, and their would be serious questions based on performance.

I believe that Poker Stars is better managed, and therefore, and shown more growth, has better customers service, etc.
lol at you having any connections. even if you did way to reveal private conversations.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:09 PM   #29
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Ok guys, here's something i've always wondered, it may seem like a stupid question but:

Why the **** don't other sites makes their software as good as pstars? I mean pstars has a simple layout thats friggin awesome and lets you choose your avatar. The response is immediate (providing your internet is quick enough) yet everytime you make an action on FTP it takes at least half a second to respond.

I mean i just dont get it. Look at party. They're a huge online yet their software ****IN SUCKS. i mean seriously its just so ****. i dont get it. they could get away with just kinda copying pstars setup but changing the basic appearances.

The only reason I play exclusively on stars is because their software rocks my socks off. Too bad I have a perma doomswitch on there.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:13 PM   #30
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

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Originally Posted by strongsauce View Post
lol at you having any connections. even if you did way to reveal private conversations.
Lol at you being dumb enough to question me.

I think you meant to ask "why" not "way".

The private conversations have been unsuccessful, and I don't know who has minor interests in FT (large holders diversified and sold off small l pieces to many people). Therefore, this is a way to reach those I don't know and express my concerns.
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:28 PM   #31
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

I have Cox Cable in Vegas and it rules, I am visiting family on the east coast and comcast is tilting the crap out of me. It honestly might be their fault.
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:30 PM   #32
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

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Originally Posted by LeapFrog View Post
Care to either show some numbers backing up this statement or retract it?
Were you planning on responding to this?
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:32 PM   #33
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

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Were you planning on responding to this?
I am not certain. i have proprietary information that i can not share. I am searching for public info.

I hope to respond.
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:37 PM   #34
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

You cited pokerscout as your source.
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:53 PM   #35
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

[x] thread fails
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:55 PM   #36
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbs View Post
You cited pokerscout as your source.
True. And i may have been misinformed about their information. If I was I apologize.

Can you find public information for the period 6 moths following Party pulling out comparing PS and FT? I am having trouble finding public info.

I wonder what the ratio pokerscount shows between PS and FT in the 4 or 5 months following Party's pull out. Can you find that on their site.

I will continue to look for public info. I am certain I am correct, but I know I need to prove it.
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:08 PM   #37
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amulet View Post
Can you find public information for the period 6 moths following Party pulling out comparing PS and FT? I am having trouble finding public info.
http://www.compatiblepoker.com/usa.php

Scroll down to: List of Past Poker Site Traffic: Timeline

This is where Jack Bando (great post btw) got the info that I reposted above. I can't personally speak for its accuracy but you could confirm it with pokerscout as that is where the data came from supposedly.

Here is a tip: if you want people to take you seriously, try gathering the data first, not after making some funky statement.

edit: make that a mod could confirm it with pokerscout -- I'm really going to have a tough time believing anything written by amulet
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:10 PM   #38
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

FTP was never close to even with Stars in the usercount race. When I went to work there (05/06) the peak user count was 3 or 4k users, tops. When I left the company, it was around 8k. I just checked the client count and it's over 52,000.

Stars is the clear winner and likely will be for a long time to come. But FTP is the clear #2 and they continue to grow. I'm pretty sure Howard, Ray and the rest are sleeping comfortably at night on their beds made of money
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:12 PM   #39
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

yeah but all of the BIG games are at full tilt.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:52 PM   #40
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyJ View Post
Ok guys, here's something i've always wondered, it may seem like a stupid question but:

Why the **** don't other sites makes their software as good as pstars? I mean pstars has a simple layout thats friggin awesome and lets you choose your avatar. The response is immediate (providing your internet is quick enough) yet everytime you make an action on FTP it takes at least half a second to respond.
Huh? I have played on PS and FT, and FT's response time is just as quick as PS, at least in my case. Also, FWIW, my computer is like two steps above a Commodore 64.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:44 PM   #41
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeapFrog View Post
it should be pointed out that according to pokerscout, FTs peak cash for July 16th was

July 16 1:56 PM 12342

2007 WSOP TV (July 16-20 ) 13,209 8,981 8,232

Failing...
On a random summer day at 1 pm it might be 96 degrees where you live. But the AVG for a 5 day span might be 81. Please learn to read.

You picked a stat at a sites peak at a specific time on specific date. The stat you are questioning is over the course of 5 days.

You fail at life.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:01 AM   #42
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger View Post
On a random summer day at 1 pm it might be 96 degrees where you live. But the AVG for a 5 day span might be 81. Please learn to read.

You picked a stat at a sites peak at a specific time on specific date. The stat you are questioning is over the course of 5 days.

You fail at life.
Hi there downie (probably formally banned troll),

is this better

Date Time Peak Players
July 13 12:49 PM 11794
July 14 12:56 PM 11979
July 15 1:53 PM 12113
July 16 1:56 PM 12342
July 17 1:53 PM 11798

check pokerscout going back to mar. Look at the data provided at compatible poker. Peak players have increased a significant amount from a year ago.

Last edited by LeapFrog; 07-19-2008 at 12:13 AM. Reason: oopss wrong table heading, such fail
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:04 AM   #43
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

When stars lowered their deposit options to $10, I did notice a sharp increase in their traffic.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:41 AM   #44
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Amulet, you and I have mutual friends. It seems to me the known player/shareholders don't have much of a problem with things as long as those monthlies don't stop.

I suspect the ROI on some of the US based marketing efforts is probably what has dissapointed you. The beauty of the online gaming business is the sites can use the customer deposits interest free to invest in marketing efforts. There is always money coming in and you don't need anywhere near 100% of customer's deposits available to payout, more like 10% from what I'm told.

I'd say Pokerstars has experienced a higher ROI because they are concentrating on markets where processing is easier (i.e. not North America). The EPT and other euro-focused efforts may not yield as profitable of a player, but with a falling dollar and easier processing overseas, this is a no brainer.

FTP is branded well in the US, but the U.S. based processing hurdles are also signficant. Credit card factoring only gets you so far and inevitably yields a high ratio of processor no-payments and endless manpower in sustaining the fake businesses.

I don't think it is a customer service issue and I think the site has performed exceptionally well for shareholders considering the current market. My guess is they understand they need to break into Europe but maybe aren't sure how.

Smart people at FTP and they will figure it all out. I'm sure your investment will be fine and I'd say your biggest concrern is having someone else count all your money first.

They were right about the US market being the richest and most profitable, but were wrong to underestimate processing hurdles. If I were them, I would form my own euro-based e-wallet so I didn't have to pay Neteller and Moneybookers their ridiculous fees, start my own EPT, form a team Euro-FTP for my overseas B&W commercials, sponsor some soccer teams and F-1 race cars, add some Euro denominated tables and give the US client the finger.

I think they have a license to print infinite money.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:45 AM   #45
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transa View Post
When stars lowered their deposit options to $10, I did notice a sharp increase in their traffic.
This is big for Stars. Also that they have plenty of microstakes games below 10NL and that their rake is lower for these games. FTP doesn't seem to want these players.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:33 AM   #46
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnWithTheShow View Post
Amulet, you and I have mutual friends. It seems to me the known player/shareholders don't have much of a problem with things as long as those monthlies don't stop.

I suspect the ROI on some of the US based marketing efforts is probably what has dissapointed you. The beauty of the online gaming business is the sites can use the customer deposits interest free to invest in marketing efforts. There is always money coming in and you don't need anywhere near 100% of customer's deposits available to payout, more like 10% from what I'm told.

I'd say Pokerstars has experienced a higher ROI because they are concentrating on markets where processing is easier (i.e. not North America). The EPT and other euro-focused efforts may not yield as profitable of a player, but with a falling dollar and easier processing overseas, this is a no brainer.

FTP is branded well in the US, but the U.S. based processing hurdles are also signficant. Credit card factoring only gets you so far and inevitably yields a high ratio of processor no-payments and endless manpower in sustaining the fake businesses.

I don't think it is a customer service issue and I think the site has performed exceptionally well for shareholders considering the current market. My guess is they understand they need to break into Europe but maybe aren't sure how.

Smart people at FTP and they will figure it all out. I'm sure your investment will be fine and I'd say your biggest concrern is having someone else count all your money first.

They were right about the US market being the richest and most profitable, but were wrong to underestimate processing hurdles. If I were them, I would form my own euro-based e-wallet so I didn't have to pay Neteller and Moneybookers their ridiculous fees, start my own EPT, form a team Euro-FTP for my overseas B&W commercials, sponsor some soccer teams and F-1 race cars, add some Euro denominated tables and give the US client the finger.

I think they have a license to print infinite money.
This is 100% for sure the best post in this thread, if you don't have a job with FT marketing they should hire you.
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Old 07-19-2008, 04:55 AM   #47
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

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This is big for Stars. Also that they have plenty of microstakes games below 10NL and that their rake is lower for these games. FTP doesn't seem to want these players.
This is what I'll never understand. Having 10NL as the lowest game is OK I suppose, but no online poker game should have a 10% rake like 10NL does.

I guess they're thinking that 10NL players are too new to realize they're getting screwed. This is one of the reasons why I switched over to stars. I feel like full tilt doesn't even try to pretend that they care about the players. I also signed up without rakeback which is my fault but tilt should make it easier to get rakeback. There's a queue for it I think and I dont wanna bother with that crap when I can be working towards supernova on stars, which is overall a better site to play on anyway.
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:21 AM   #48
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

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Originally Posted by j00ky View Post
This is 100% for sure the best post in this thread, if you don't have a job with FT marketing they should hire you.
+1, great post
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:24 AM   #49
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wetleg View Post
This is big for Stars. Also that they have plenty of microstakes games below 10NL and that their rake is lower for these games. FTP doesn't seem to want these players.

Probably like most businesses, they make 80% of their income from the top 20% of players. They might not have as much overall traffic but do seem to have some of the bigger games at FTP.
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Old 07-19-2008, 10:33 AM   #50
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

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Originally Posted by OnWithTheShow View Post
The beauty of the online gaming business is the sites can use the customer deposits interest free to invest in marketing efforts. There is always money coming in and you don't need anywhere near 100% of customer's deposits available to payout, more like 10% from what I'm told.

This is completely wrong if you hold the money in trust. A lot of sites, ftp included iirc, do not. However, not holding the money in trust is very bad for players, and there is a good possiblity it will become very bad for sites if the issue is brought to forefront through situations like the Prima skin debacle (not saying they have yet, most casual players have no idea about it) or impossible if regulation ever occurs in the US (I would be incredulous if any for such regulation did not force the monies to be held in trust).

Floating with money like that is incredibly sketchy. (Money like that meaning money that is not invested in your company, but rather funds you are actually just holding.)

Seriously, every player should be worried about this sort of thing. Even banks and financial institutions who are regulated and have much more skillfull financial management get into serious trouble at times. Of course, the government (i.e. US taxpayers) are not going to bail out a poker site the way our long history shows us bailing out financial institutions.

I am greatly disturbed by the insinuation that FTP uses players' money in any operational way. That is just frightening beyond belief.
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