Where was the AGCC during these huge shortfalls? I'm assuming for whatever reason they didn't know about any of this (bc who would allow that to continue as a regulator), but isn't it their job to check FTPs accounts for this sort of thing?

what i said was probably confusing.
its my guess that Jeff could have had it done last night if ftp was much quicker
Its also my guess now that its a combination of the storm and ftps slowness

I have no desire to highjack this thread, but for the record, I am not sure where you get your numbers, but the last time I checked it was more like $10B as of March of this year ($10B is a lot less then $30B)....and, of that, he basically guilted a widow (whose husband committed suicided over it) to give her whole family fortune of $7B (not that she shouldn't have done it anyway).

http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/08/news...card/index.htm

And its worth pointing out that Picard has been very successful instituting personal lawsuits against rich people....which is what the class action is effectively seeking....now a BK court in Ireland or the UK could highjack this process and do the same thing if its trusted found willful missmanagement or fraud...keep that in mind....just another potential problem for the owners of FTP.

ps. Thanks for allowing me to open the door to that thought!

How could things get "far worse" than they are now with FTP ?

I've seen radically different figures on the amount of losses and the amount recovered, but almost all agree that ~50% of the monies have been recovered.

deposit clearance decision ($128M WTF?) look like an awful moneygrab of a desperate company trying to make rake from legit players making the games look softer than they really were.

Multi-entry tournaments look a bit shady too

Oh I get it, my bad, thanks I WAS uniformed as you said

THose AGCC idiots directly caused the mess we are in now. They failed miserably as a regulator. They probably didnt know anything about what was going on within FTP before BF. I guess they were just happy to collect their hefty fees and too lazy to check FTP's accouting. And after BF, they should have given FTP some time to get a deal ready for the interest of the players. I dont understand why they didnt give FTP some kind of warnings like "Hey FTP, if you dont get a deal ready or close to it within 2 months, we will pull the plug". Instead they got panicked and suddenly pulled the plug to save their own ass. If FTP can generate income now, it is MUCH MUCH easier for them to find a buyer and repay players.
It just seems that DOJ, FTP and AGCC worked closely with each other in terms of timings to make sure players wont get paid.

ah ok thanks, so do they get fined for the civil infraction or get teh banhammer ?

As I understand it breaching a foreign restraint order would be a breach of that sovereign nation's own laws. I'm guessing the DOJ and most crown prosecutors would prefer for foreign asset recovery to use that foreign countries laws if suitable so if a restraint order was breached then it would be a criminal matter in that country. A small subtle point in the Neteller case was that they used the foreign (likely Canadian restraint orders) which remained until the DPA was reached.

As a tangent since Ive been looking into these things (not a lawyer)
iirc 28 U.S.C. 1355(b) (2) gives US federal Courts jurisdiction over any property in the world under civil in rem proceedings.

No sovereign nation has the ability to enforce judgments of its own Courts on other nations (especially where laws differ -hence treaties) so the scenario where a judgment of a U.S. federal court may not be binding and ultimately conclusive on the parties and give the United States of America true right and interest of the in rem property vs the rest of the world can occur.

If the foreign court refuses or is unable to enforce fully through the lens of it's own laws the U.S. judgment then the question must be asked did the U.S. Court really have constructive control over the in rem property and is effectively providing evidence to the foreign court and advice on judgment?

Traditionally in rem descended from 17th C English law about one's animal injuring another human and in modern times is used in Maritime law due to the nature of shipping and multi-jurisdictional - even the U.S. civil forfeiture notice for this case references Admiralty and Maritime schedules.

Maybe some of HDemet's friends are involved here in teh Cosco shipping dispute using in rem in it's proper Maritime place

This.

As I wrote in the Neteller post today, Neteller were aware of the amount seized as ~55 million USD 2 weeks after restraint of accounts so FTP should have a good idea of the amount seized unless it had poor accounting. Also iirc the DOJ made no objections to publishing this detail in the Press release.

Despite my repeated criticism of the use of in rem civil forfeiture in this case. I agree with Noah to not 'bug' the DOJ. I said it before but if I was you I would contact your political representatives and if enough make a noise or the right people are contacted they will contact in turn the DOJ and remind them of player's plight.

However, if the USAO made a statement that they are aware of (US) player's funds situation and consider them victims then...

I can tell you for a fact that it was not $30B regardless of what you think. The trustee has interesting ways of accounting for these things and this is where you are getting the ~50% number (they now say the total was only $20B, which I think is more of a marketing thing for the trustee which is paying itself 100s of millions), but dont translate that into a dollar number based on the original total as that is inaccurate. But I would argue that players have a similar potential for collection between all the options if FTP doesn't make it, which is why the owners are doing everything they can to avoid that.


Agreed. But the potential for collection is worth thinking about.....

Please argue this over PM. This is not the Madoff thread.

With regards to Diamond, what are you implying with getting the USAO involved? Is that actually possible?

There must have been a warning. There was an FTP insider here(Deuc3s), who claimed to be working at FTP, that foretold the 29th as the doomsday. How could he know if FTP didn't know? Unless he was from the AGCC.

that
+ the fact that he probably has to be real careful about what he says
(or may be he has big news and is waiting for it)

there has been about 1598 FTP insiders....

yes according to what has been reported, the prb seems to be the deal between the DOJ and FTP. This is what is stalling the investors deal. If this could be speed up...who knows

very small chance of relevance, but not quite 0 so may as well throw it out there:

http://www.gamblingcontrol.org/userf...2020110826.pdf

could SE Asia be SA? I can't find anything on them.

Could also be completely irrelevant AGCC gets lots of applications. Also why would they apply for a new license, they already have one (supended but still valid)

Is that possibly an application for a gaming license from a potential FTP investor?

Just to be clear, while it is a > 0 possibility, I am NOT implying it is the most likely scenario.

How many Licenses have the AGCC given out and how often do they receive applications for Licenses? This information would go a long way as far as being able to guess of this is relevant or not...

we gotta wait another 24 hours atleast

For the Jeff I. response?

About 1 a month

interesting. that lawyer guy said somethin was up?

[QUOTE=PhigNootin;28385073]How many Licenses have the AGCC given out and how often do they receive applications for Licenses? This information would go a long way as far as being able to guess of this is relevant or not...[/QUOTE

This should be extremely helpful.

I emailed Mr. Ifrah to ask if we should be expecting anything from FTP anytime soon. He said, 'I hope so, The statement is literally in their hands now'. I asked him if this statement is the answers to Noahs questions, or something more? He hasn't responded yet.

I guess this is where our patience as poker players is tested

It's been tested for 4 months and counting now.