Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-23-2019, 06:19 PM   #926
Sect7G
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calling a spade a spade
Posts: 10,946
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreySteel View Post
You really thought that?
PokerStars is burned in the minds and souls of poker players, you're gonna need a bit more than that to surpass them lol.

I didn't think they would succeed because of their poor strategy and the people they turned to for leadership. But that doesn't mean it couldn't have worked.
Sect7G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 07:16 AM   #927
NooooBingo
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Send Me
Posts: 524
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreySteel View Post
You really thought that?
PokerStars is burned in the minds and souls of poker players, you're gonna need a bit more than that to surpass them lol.
This. Also, I think people underestimate how much Stars does to maintain their industry stranglehold. They hold far more licenses than any other site, have strong relationships with all regulated jurisdictions, their global marketing budget is more than partypoker's entire revenue (or at least it was a couple years back), and they're not using a 2011 business strategy in 2019.

While their morals and priorities may be completely different to the Stars of old, they know exactly what they're doing, and they do it way better than partypoker.
NooooBingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 07:54 AM   #928
zica
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 646
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by getSchwifty View Post
they segregated the playerpools depending on your winnings without telling players
That is really really tricky. It isn't often I fail to foresee an effective underhanded ploy but I didn't come close to thinking of this one. Hat's off to whoever thought of it. Unfortunately, imo, it amounts to the website cheating because it almost ensures all the money will go to rake.

Basically, it's a fraud. You're under the impression that when you sit down you are playing against random opponents but in fact are playing against a select group and this system is meant to minimize or eliminate your ability to win long term.
zica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 09:03 AM   #929
Josem
human chemical weapon
 
Josem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Getting Trolled
Posts: 16,837
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by NooooBingo View Post
...They hold far more licenses than any other site....
I don't think this is true. PartyPoker/GVC have a similar number:

Party claim to have:
Alderney, Austria*, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece (interim), Gibraltar, Italy, Malta, Romania, UK, and USA (New Jersey)

PokerStars claim to have
Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Malta, Portugal, Romania, Spain, UK and USA (New Jersey).

(I've bolded the unique licenses that the other one doesn't appear to have)

*It's not clear to me if these are for poker or sports betting, they might also have others that aren't mentioned on their websites that I linked to; I don't follow this with great detail these days.

Quote:
While their morals and priorities may be completely different to the Stars of old, they know exactly what they're doing, and they do it way better than partypoker.
I don't know what metric you use to compare the two. Neither are doing very well if you judge them by the metric of creating shareholder value, with both having their share collapse by around half from their highs last year.

See here:
GVC: https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/GVC.L/
TSG: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSG?ltr=1
Josem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 11:56 AM   #930
NooooBingo
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Send Me
Posts: 524
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
I don't think this is true. PartyPoker/GVC have a similar number:

Party claim to have:
Alderney, Austria*, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece (interim), Gibraltar, Italy, Malta, Romania, UK, and USA (New Jersey)

PokerStars claim to have
Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Malta, Portugal, Romania, Spain, UK and USA (New Jersey).

(I've bolded the unique licenses that the other one doesn't appear to have)

*It's not clear to me if these are for poker or sports betting, they might also have others that aren't mentioned on their websites that I linked to; I don't follow this with great detail these days.
To the best of my knowledge, Austria don't issue online poker licenses, but the one's you highlighted for Stars are for poker. 15 licenses vs 12 seems significant, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
I don't know what metric you use to compare the two. Neither are doing very well if you judge them by the metric of creating shareholder value, with both having their share collapse by around half from their highs last year.

See here:
GVC: https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/GVC.L/
TSG: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSG?ltr=1
Referring to Stars dominance of the online poker market.
NooooBingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2019, 09:32 AM   #931
Lyamani
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 156
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Seems like most of the problems have been solved. Is there still a reason not to play at PP?
Lyamani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2019, 10:12 AM   #932
jayme87
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,090
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Lol check mtt thread ect. Bots at midstakes mtts still. Ff pools seems also a problem for bots. No rsa token still to keep any meaningful money on there.

Client is alot better but still getting something akin to pokerstars fulltilt software seems nigh on impossible for other sites. I like wat party is doing but imo thing are far from "sorted"
jayme87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2019, 12:15 PM   #933
GazzyB123
Pooh-Bah
 
GazzyB123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yer maw
Posts: 4,269
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

They are without a doubt the shadiest ****s on the internet. I mind once when there were a few accounts from Albania or somewhere in the ff pool for literally one entire week without leaving we enquired about them in the PartyPoker thread and Colette said something along the lines of "yes they are in-house bots testing the new rakeback system." The response was naturally one of fury, and a couple of days later the lobby changed so you can no longer see who's in the zoom pools.

Added to the fact that loads of regs have converters*, party can't tell, the bot system is an utter joke and the money grab when they changed the rakeback system and set it so that unused PartyPoints (or whatever they were called) expired and turned to $0 instead of AUTOMATICALLY being converted to cash means they can go and **** themselves.

And don't get me ****in started on the BRS/Pads stable stuff.

*they portray the removal of huds as some noble act to protect recreational players yet MTTs and ff pools still allow them lololol. I remember when they implemented the change they had a picture of an athlete getting ready to sprint off, standing next to a machine in the same pose and the caption "not on our watch." Ironic seeing as the games are bot infested "on their watch".
GazzyB123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2019, 12:36 PM   #934
Lyamani
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 156
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazzyB123 View Post
They are without a doubt the shadiest ****s on the internet. I mind once when there were a few accounts from Albania or somewhere in the ff pool for literally one entire week without leaving we enquired about them in the PartyPoker thread and Colette said something along the lines of "yes they are in-house bots testing the new rakeback system." The response was naturally one of fury, and a couple of days later the lobby changed so you can no longer see who's in the zoom pools.

Added to the fact that loads of regs have converters*, party can't tell, the bot system is an utter joke and the money grab when they changed the rakeback system and set it so that unused PartyPoints (or whatever they were called) expired and turned to $0 instead of AUTOMATICALLY being converted to cash means they can go and **** themselves.

And don't get me ****in started on the BRS/Pads stable stuff.

*they portray the removal of huds as some noble act to protect recreational players yet MTTs and ff pools still allow them lololol. I remember when they implemented the change they had a picture of an athlete getting ready to sprint off, standing next to a machine in the same pose and the caption "not on our watch." Ironic seeing as the games are bot infested "on their watch".
Yeah I also never understood why they hide one game type and not the others. If they really want to equal the play field they should hide everything below 25/50 and below $150ish buyins for tournaments and sng's. Most people playing 25/50 will be using HUD's anyway, so it's not a particularly uneven of a playing field.

I'd would say they're on par with 888, when it comes to software en game quality tho.
Lyamani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2019, 01:53 PM   #935
humbumter
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 59
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
I don't think this is true. PartyPoker/GVC have a similar number:

Party claim to have:
Alderney, Austria*, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece (interim), Gibraltar, Italy, Malta, Romania, UK, and USA
Since when does Party have a license in Romania? I can't even access their website from here, they are blocked. They did some shady stuff although we have one of the best legislations for poker. Stars, Unibet, 888 and others got theirs the next day it was regulated, a few years ago.
humbumter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2019, 02:07 PM   #936
golfbum983
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 796
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Geez, they admitted having house bots to test rakeback for weeks lol is that real ?
golfbum983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2019, 07:35 PM   #937
JackBurton
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 273
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

The MPN head also said in a interview that bots that increase liquidity may be a positive thing in the future, of course they should be disclosed by the room first!

They may be a good way to play against and for the players to practice like in other games. I guess he just forgot to say that the players who play poker even in micro stakes may pay 100's of euros per month to play, and that other games like Hearthstone is free to play and you may buy several cards with just 10-20 bucks.

They try to ban pokertrackers and make the games anonymous and in the future they are the same who are going to promote poker bots. In fact with anonymous games the poker bots will be much harder to get caught. Wasn't also ipoker that had bots playing on the network in the past?
JackBurton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2019, 07:55 PM   #938
golfbum983
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 796
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

The only bots that would be good for liquidity that are “house bots” would be losing/bad ones, which I highly doubt they would use

Havent played pp for about a year , and would still rather play stars with 0 rakeback before I ever played there
golfbum983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2019, 08:47 PM   #939
dhubermex
grinder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 437
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBurton View Post
The MPN head also said in a interview that bots that increase liquidity may be a positive thing in the future, of course they should be disclosed by the room first!

They may be a good way to play against and for the players to practice like in other games. [snipped]
It's possible you're referring to a Feb. 15th interview I published with MPN Managing Director of Poker Alex Scott.

https://www.parttimepoker.com/alex-s...ine-poker-bots

In the interview, Alex told me that:

(a) "In some regulated markets, like the UK for example, a site could operate AI opponents in this way as long as they were fully transparent. But the UK is a large enough market to sustain a wide variety of games with human players, so the benefit is less obvious – it’s the smaller markets where this idea has the most potential."

(b) "Poker site-created bots could move at a pace that is geared toward each specific player as well. One of the very difficult things at the moment with creating some type of poker training software is that everybody learns at a different pace."

With that said, the general player attitude is overall negative towards 'bots' currently, and any such software would require regulatory approval in formally licensed markets. So such technology, if/when it develops into a commercially viable product, is still likely a year-plus away from becoming a reality (imo).
dhubermex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2019, 09:49 PM   #940
JackBurton
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 273
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Thanks I've seen the translation of some parts here:

https://pokerpt.com/noticias/alex-sc...-bots-no-poker

Quote from your article:
Quote:
Alex Scott: I think it’s less than it’s perceived to be. I do think that prohibited software, automation, etc. is a threat. I absolutely do. But I think the threat of bots in particular is exaggerated. I think that people believe bots are more prevalent than they actually are. And in particular, I think that people believe that winning bots are more prevalent than they actually are.

Winning bots are still very, very rare from my experience. And while they do exist, they’re not anything like as common as people might believe. Particularly when you see there are these challenges where bots play against each other — or against the best human players in the world. People claim to have solved games like Limit Hold’em, or Heads-Up Limit Hold’em, and things like that. But I think that the perception of the general public is that bots are more prevalent and skillful than they really are.
Pretty disingenuous. I don't know how common they are, but any bot that plays on a major site beats the average pool of players in small and midstakes. In fact a few players with big volume have been found to be bots and some of the biggest winners in the past, found by the players that play against them!

The bot doesn't need to have the sophistication of Cepheus or Libratus to beat the field, far from it. But yeah keep making anonymous tables with no hand histories for the common players to see if I believe these operators in combating bots and securing the games.
JackBurton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2019, 06:09 AM   #941
Josem
human chemical weapon
 
Josem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Getting Trolled
Posts: 16,837
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by humbumter View Post
Since when does Party have a license in Romania?
You literally quoted the link I posted where they claim to have a license in Romania.

It is here again for your reference: https://poker.partypoker.com/en/p/about-us
Josem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2019, 07:55 AM   #942
humbumter
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 59
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
You literally quoted the link I posted where they claim to have a license in Romania.

It is here again for your reference: https://poker.partypoker.com/en/p/about-us
I can't access that link because it's blocked...If they claim to have a license in Romania either they haven't updated it since 2015 or so or they are just lying
humbumter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2019, 08:02 AM   #943
mecantplay
old hand
 
mecantplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: rarely lucky, jajaja
Posts: 1,503
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Maybe it is a Bwin license, not Party, as in Bulgaria. They are owned by one parent company - GVC and use one software for poker and sportsbook with different colors. Afaik Bwin poker use older version of the software compared to Party.
mecantplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2019, 11:41 AM   #944
humbumter
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 59
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Bwin it's also blocked. You can expect anything from Party
humbumter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 01:17 AM   #945
matthmit
newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 46
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

So,should i move from stars to party ? based on this thread i'd say no,but i play low stakes cash and the rakeback on party seems really good compared to ~2% from stars,is the fastforward pool really bot infested ? field is tougher than on stars ?
matthmit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 01:57 AM   #946
golfbum983
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 796
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthmit View Post
So,should i move from stars to party ? based on this thread i'd say no,but i play low stakes cash and the rakeback on party seems really good compared to ~2% from stars,is the fastforward pool really bot infested ? field is tougher than on stars ?
Why don’t you dep a small amount and try it for yourself

But easy answer is no
golfbum983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 04:45 AM   #947
nickjehz
old hand
 
nickjehz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: OhSnap!
Posts: 1,847
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

if they cannot solve an all-in button bug then what can we expect?
That bug is so tilting and can cost you a lot of EV...
nickjehz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2019, 12:29 PM   #948
watcher911
stranger
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1
Unhappy Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Party poker steals... literally. Where else can you pay to play a tournament win a ticket to a generic 55.00 tournament that plays every day and then they tell you it has expired. When I played that tournament the satellite tournament which I paid cash for ….the prize pool information did not mention the tournament ticket was valid for only 1 week..people work and go out of town sometimes they don't play on the site for a week....does not matter to PARTY POKER ...GIVE US YOUR MONEY FOR TOURNAMENTS AND WE WILL STEAL IT LATER BY EXPIRYING YOUR TICKET IN 7 DAYS.


One can understand putting expiry dates on promo tickets that were not paid for....I had to pay money to enter a tournament and then win a $55 dollar ticket they expired 7 days later as I was unable to commit the time to play. This is stealing ...they talk about their policies and that they are on line for everyone to read....this is stealing no where on the prize pool section of the tournament did they mention you prize is good only 7 days....this is stealing no doubt about it ….I am not sure if the new Party Poker pros know about this scam they might feel differently about supporting this site ….
watcher911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2019, 08:53 PM   #949
super_dave31
adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,062
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

^^)hmm I can see your point

But equally when I took a look at my tickets it clearly said "expires on 31st March 2019" - like they must have an end date at some point, else do they expire in 7 years time?

But equally I agree maybe they could be a bit more clear about it
super_dave31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2019, 09:02 PM   #950
DeepInCidurr
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 117
Re: Five reasons to not play on Party Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by super_dave31 View Post
^^)hmm I can see your point

But equally when I took a look at my tickets it clearly said "expires on 31st March 2019" - like they must have an end date at some point, else do they expire in 7 years time?

But equally I agree maybe they could be a bit more clear about it
why?

why programme an end date in whatsoever? when programming the software, they couldve just not programmed in expiry dates. its no a something tangible. its a digital credit.
DeepInCidurr is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online