Oh I see, just looked odd ya know?

Having worked in software dev I was relatively sure it wasn't a PT bug as HUD's don't generally interact with clients/tables in that manner.

/Curiosity and derail over

Is that live chat? That sounds cool.

Fairly recently, I once had a live chat with Pokerstars support from inside the Pokerstars client! weird, right?!
(I think it was ealier this year when they kept having all those software bugs & server issues)

So the Pokerstars software does have the capacity to do it... they just don't want to lol

I hope party still keep the old software it started with as I still use it today,
Maybe just upgrade it would be a better option than anything else.

Yup live chat 24/7, afaik. Helped me fast both times in few past weeks i was asking questions.

So Mixgrill, have you simply moved to stars fulltime?

That would be my advice anyway, they are serious about dealing with cheaters over there.

Unfortunately no, Party is the only site that caters to cheaters.





2p2 mods might be pro-cheating but stars support isnt! (i wasn't the one to contact stars)

What am I looking at? What is root.0?

This is Mixgrill cheating on stars somehow? After that opening rant about party???

Pretty sure those root things aren't related to PT4 at all.

those guys (and stars) thinking it's some sort of GTO solver are totally clueless about how softwares and computers work.

pt and other trackers like hm, softwares like helper or table ninja, timemojo and **** like that has to track some infos real time from the highlighted areas. (ie. nicknames, board, stacksizes.)

how do you think a HUD can run on zoom tables for example? it has to track every players nicknames from the table layout itself, theres no such thing as hand history for it, because table changes every hand, so the last hands history is totally irrelevant for which players' hud has to show up.

every stars helper program (fe. keep track of the previous streets action like, XC flop, turn XX and make the action visible on the table layout.) uses real time data as well, hand histories are basicly just for building databases in modern tracking programs, what do you think why pt 4, hm 2 (3) exist? they're improving the methods of tracking dramatically.

i used pokerace hud around 10 years ago, it was sooo ****ty in every areas compared to modern tracking softwares i cant even compare. they're not just building new versions for business purposes, they improving them dramatically and build up totally new softwares for current days requirements.

and who has money for such supercomputers that can run real time gto solvers won't waste no time playing internet poker. that stands for a couple more years (10+ i guess) to come for sure. because you have no clue what "root.0" can be it doesn't mean it has to be something related to cheating or shadiness.

What it can be is a screen scraper that reads hand action in real time and feeds it to a precomputed database of GTO solutions. You wouldn't have to solve in real time, all you'd need is a way to quickly reference a database.

FWIW I'm not accusing anyone in particular of doing this, it's just my opinion that something like this would be standard practice for any reg who plays high stakes in 2017 and for a number of reasons. It's not particularly hard to implement, it's difficult for sites to stop it and not doing it would put you at a significant disadvantage.

I had to read this several times because you can't write. It was a waste of time, because it turns out that you don't know what you're talking about in any language.

It's obviously a screen scraper for input to some cheating software. If you don't know what it is, why spew out a wall of gibberish?

Also lol supercomputers

you have way less clue.

the white lines are clearly a bug of any kind of software. what make you believe it's a feature of some "cheating software"? there is no upside for the user to see white lines and the word "root.0" ten times on a poker layout for a flashing second, so it's clearly bug.

i'm sorry you don't understand why a tracking software has to scrape real time data from the screen. you have 0 evidence it is for something illegal, the only counfusing thing is why the font color and the lines are white instead of invisible.

i won't beef you back regardless of your efforts, sorry.

I'm pretty sure HM2 gets data from hand history text files which are written after hands are over. if you use HM2 you know you need to give it path to these files in "Site Setup". also, if you minimize a table before the hand is dealt to you and timeout fold, the hand would show in HM2. also my laptop froze a decent number of times and hands were still saved with all action so I'm 99.99999% sure HM2 doesn't scrape screen.

don't know about a program like stars helper which actually needs live data. but if the program is not prohibited by stars I guess it has a way to interact with their client because it needs to work always and reading directly from the screen is pretty sloppy.

so that leaves one option...

The thing is that PT/HM, etc do indeed scrape some data, but it's pretty much limited to screen names to match them with HUD boxes. The other details of hand histories are written on a hard drive by poker client after a hand is over and then imported by tracking software. It can clearly be seen from the screenshot that the middle box scrapes board texture, the one left from it bet size, and next to it whether a player is in hand or not.

And with regard to your earlier post about needing a supercomputer to use GTO strategies in real time, you're wrong. If you get time intensive calculations out of the way it's just a matter of querying elements out of the resulting dataset. Let's say that you want to solve HU for 10bb deep by hand and use the results in-game. You know all the equations for the strategy, so you calculate the results (which takes a lot of time) and write them down. Now, when you're playing you don't have to calculate the strategy again each hand, but you can just reference the sheet of paper you wrote the results on.
Solvers work similarly by first calculating and then allowing to store the results for quick access. If you have a dataset of pre-calculated solutions, the main problem becomes getting the right solution out in a timely manner and that's where screen scrapers come in as they allow to automatically read information. The way the system works is that first, a screen scraper reads game state from a poker table and submits the relevant information to the program. Second, the program takes that information and cross-references it with the pre-calculated dataset of solutions. The dataset, in turn, sends the program back the corresponding solution to that one situation and finally, the program displays the solution to the user. The if the scraper and program are well-written and dataset not too large, the process would probably take less than a second or a couple of seconds maximum with absolutely no computational power needed.

My account has now been re-activated.

It took a little while to get resolved, but it is now fully resolved. Party did attempt to contact me by phone & email prior to my account closure. As I am overseas, they were unable to connect to my phone. The email account they contacted me on is now closed.

Unfortunately, the email I sent pp at the point of my account being blocked, which clearly stated my old email account was now closed, wasnt handled correctly - and thats my only issue with pp here. I hope they can help to improve their CS as a result of this case.

Thank you to Colette who was extremely helpful throughout the process.

i don't think it's contradictory with supercomps, with the size of game tree and variable 6max stack sizes you can't really build/read a legit database with solutions without massive computing power.

Libratus worked in a very similar way and still was slow as **** on turns and rivers even 2-tabling a static stacksized HU game.

i don't think anyone can effectively botting and multitabling 6max high stakes right now.

what about HM's NoteCaddy function? it cleary scrapes bet sizes, pot size, board texture while you're in the hand, and it's part of the tracking software. even the smallest addons (ie. visualizing avg stacksize, pot odds) scrape the poker layout. you can't do that from hand histories.

The first point is kind of moot since you can just rent a cloud server from Amazon. Of course, you cannot calculate the full solutions (e.g. for every single set-size), but using more common sizings and board abstractions (exhibit A) it shouldn't be too hard to create a pseudo-GTO strategy that's kind of close to the real thing.

You would think that Mixgrill would stop by and tell us what he was using. Hmmmm ... what could the reason be?

Don't you think Pokerstars has asked the developers of PT4, SH and TN if this could be a bug in their software before banning this poor lad?
One can only hope Stars will look into all players affiliated with MMAsherdog as surely he would not keep a strong software aid all to himself.

Eh I'm pretty sure PT4 only uses HH and the client memory to gather its data.
Screen scraping would not be scalable or efficient.

For example Joe Pokerplayer buys PT4 and sets it up, then goes and buys a mod for his chosen client. PT4's "scraping" function breaks rendering the software useless.

Hence the reason why you're not told to select certain themes by PT4.. Because they don't scrape data.

Not sure about starshelper, never used it. I think I've seen some streamers use some weird themes with it though so maybe they also use client data/memory??

I can't really see any large commercial software relying on scraping. It is not reliable in and of itself, then when you add the variables of users and the software they target it adds up to an absolute nightmare just keeping the application functional.

All those scrapes are used by various products. Stars helper needs to know the pot size, the size of the bet, the stacks on every street(for conversion to BB), how much each player puts in etc etc. I suspect its the same with tableninja.

Given the placement of the lines on that screenshot its either starshelper, poker tracker or table ninja or a combination of the three that is causing the problem.

Something else to look at is any table mods that have been used in the past as these can cause problems , even when you revert back to a normal stars theme

Firstly, your assuming that pokerstars a) contacted the developers and b) received concise replies.

Developers are by their very nature very protective of their product and some will deny that any problems could possibly be caused by their software. Pokerstars is a classic example - how many nights have we had in the past few months where numerous people experience connection problems at exactly the same time, only to be told "Nothing wrong our end mate, it must be you".

it's pretty easy to check if stars helper is scraping the screen (highly doubt it). open a table and open some stuff like notepad and paint and reduce their windows. place them over parts of table so that you can't see what the open raise size from someone will be. if stars helper can still see the correct raise size, it clearly isn't scraping the screen.