I'm confused. So more rake isnt better for Poker?

You are simplifiying it a bit too much imo. Yes your arguments make sense, but you didn't touch at all of the negative impact stables have on the ecosystem. In the end it's all about the rec:reg ratio.

Patrick you seem to know an awful lot about a slew of things poker related in relation to Party Poker. Could you look into this stable a little more closely and share with us what details that you can. I've received a few PM's and talked with some people on the side about this and it seems that DTD satellites aren't the only ones being affected.

Simply:

1) Does Party Poker offer Ticket conversion to cash/T money for this stable for online satellites on Party?

2) Do any other Live events sponsored by Party have this arrangement besides DTD? Perhaps the Playground?

3) Does Party Poker offer this exchange for regular satellites on Party Poker? (i.e) a satellite to the Sunday Major?

4) In light of this issue being brought to light to the masses does Party Poker intend to allow these types of arrangements to continue?

I appreciate the replies.

Fast forward games continue to be infested with cheaters. Great job Party Poker. You all should be fired. Immediately

Also, providing a 48 hour template response than taking 1-2 weeks still to reapond is not an improvement...but i'm sure you know this

Just so I understand. Patrick runs a stable of players that join tournaments on Party Poker when those tournaments are not meeting guarantees. Those players are "fun" players ( for the most part) but money won is split up between Patrick and his horses. Patrick is affiliated with Party Poker as an ambassador.

@CHOMP, I think people are saying there's two stables, Patrick's (which is exclusively online) and this other one with the special deals.

No, but most winning players radically overestimate how much they are winning by so probably a lot of them would have a higher ROI if they were actually doing this. What % did people say they have of themselves?

Hey Pads. Do your stable members share resources between them? HHs, charts, game decision trees, HUDs? Did they ever play in one room together? Did they ever play under someone`s supervision (skype call with you or other coaches in stable, shared screens, etc)?

On completely unrelated matter: How would you define collusion?

Wow...to think that without stables online poker will be dead is...delusional. Imo this is the main reason why all types of games are harder and harder each year, not poker sites that incraese rake or training sites or whatever else. You and others like you have destroyed games over the years makeing it accesible for the average player to have a bankroll and to be coached pretty cheaply if you ask me. And some of them will get very good and open there own mini stable and so on. Those -5% ROI are losing to the sites, not so much against other better players and they will increase the variance for everybody. You can get a stake now even in micros/low stakes and gl beating the rake by much against even semicompetent players. I'm talking of all types of games. Look at Doug's challenge in the micros, he's not doing so well even if the skill level difference is huge. You could say that stables offer liquidity in MTT's but that's about it in regards to advantages. The downside is huge compared to that. The only good thing about stables is your own pocket, let's be honest and you don't have to fk up your brain every day due to variance and let others play for you.

Such a joke. Yeah we are aware bliblitiblaahblaa.

No that's wrong mate. Patrick's stable has nothing to do with it. We were talking about BRS, a different stable. Also I couldn't care less about a few punters being put into a live tourney to meet a guarantee, they're probably all terrible anyway. It was more about BRS having site priveleges like the conversion of tickets into cash as some other posters pointed out. We were questioning the validity of that statement.

With regard to stables, personally I've never been a part of one or sold action. Have always believed in organically working your way up. That's probably naive and why after all this time I'm still stuck playing midstakes online lol. However, well run stables do make online mtts significantly tougher.

They are a huge part of the online environment and the player pools in mtts would take a big hit without them. What I meant is that the good stables take care of their horses well, which is expected; Group coaching, hand history reviews, Skype strategy groups, personalised training videos for the stable, loans etc. We have no idea how much horses discuss about other regs with each other or if at all but one can assume it occurs at least to some degree within certain stables. Some offer coaching with Elliot roe or other mindset coaches. I know personally how much value working with Elliot has brought me. It's been life changing and I wouldn't want to deny that opportunity to anyone else. I'm merely stating how much value a good stable actually gives an average poker player.

In the past few years I've spent a significant chunk of my roll on poker coaching, mindset coaching, training sites etc and also foot all of my buy ins. It's tough and the swings are ridiculous but I prefer it that way for now. I do miss out on playing larger buyins and a bunch of live birds and that's probably holding back my own development to some degree. Yet on the other side, I can't imagine how stressful it is being buried in makeup and then trying to play your A game to get out.

Most definitely without stables I'd b playing smaller prize pools and I'm not saying every stable provides all of these tools, I've just personally witnessed how they've made the game tougher over the years. And that's a credit to the well run stables. It's no easy task to turn average players into crushers or even winners.

There are tools some of them use that I didn't even know existed for the longest time. For example; pio solver. Had never heard of it until a horse told a friend of mine that they were taught pio by their stable. I tried downloading it and was basically gibberish to me. I'm not very good with the technicalities behind solvers or other advanced software and that's not anyone's fault but mine. The game will continue to evolve whether I'm aware of it or not but stables certainly expedite that process. Some players would never even have heard of these tools unless they were introduced to them by their stable, let alone how to use them correctly. Whereas on the flip side, some of them might not be playing at all without a stable, which is actually worse.

At the end of the day, some stables definitely lose money and it's obviously an extremely tough business to run successfully. I heard a great podcast with remko recently where he interviews chris moorman. Was super interesting how he discussed his time as a backer and how difficult it was for him. The huge amounts of money he lost until he just quit and returned to playing poker full time again, with no added stress of backing. Now he's just writing books, playing solo and shipping bracelets. It's not an easy business to make profitable.

Anyway I'm done with this spiel. They're here to stay and are integral to large player pools. Let's move on.

Partypoker: When is the new software scheduled for release?

So it's not lost in a wall of text:

Partypoker, when is the new software scheduled for release?

Some interesting points. Party Poker may have hired a guy who is implicitly involved in collusion. Something which all poker sites prohibit.

Stables are bad for poker.

This Pads guy and his kind are just daytraders who are ruining it for everyone else in the not so long run.

And they know it.

That's why he says they play for fun. Fun players don't collude!

What are you even talking about?

You have trolled throughout the thread and just post without reading.

My guys dont even tell eachother their screen names half of the time lol.

I really have no idea about who they are or what they do. I'll get in touch with them and ask them to post their side of the story. NP.

Of course not. Anybody who knows me knows that I think charts are the most stupid thing in poker, i have big arguments/debates with players about "charts". Actually thats a small lie, we do share the same HUD, but that is very normal and doesn't effect anything. Collusion imo is for 2 players at the same table to be discussing during hands, people taking over for others etc. I don't think a coach from my stable has spent 1 second on a skype call with one of the guys, its really not how it works lol.

As I said previously, if stables were printing money there would be dozens of them. There has been dozens, in fact hundreds, but they are no longer about.. Why is that do I ask? The owners made too much money and are on a beach sipping cocktails? Nein. They are just living the life with their crypto? Nein. Its super hard to stake successfully and thus lots of broke companies/people who lost their money staking and thus added to the poker ecosystem whilst funding games for long periods of time.


I don't know when exactly. I have been working with the software/product guys for the last couple of months and seen how the software will basically look. I've shown a bunch of people and they've all given really good feedback. Hopefully before the end of the year we have a great new table, optimized lobby and lots of small improved features.

I think your initial diagnosis, plus the reasoning for your diagnosis, is surprising.

a) I don't think that "tournaments" are dying on other sites. The biggest growth sector in online poker in recent years has been in Sit & Go Tournaments, especially the lottery-style jackpot Sit & Go Tournaments.

b) Your argument about the rake affecting MTTs conflicts with this commentary/analysis from MPN and the experience of PokerStars

c) I think you'd find that less people are playing MTTs in 2017 because more people are playing poker on their mobile devices, and it's simply not very comfortable to play long tournaments on small screen devices.

Hey Patrick,

Any chance you answer me about what we discussed in PM one day ?

This makes a lot of sense and very true.
Good post.

For someone so smart this is wrong. Again I repeat just because they not winning a lot or even much, even if they are breakeven they are taking out the 7+% Rake from economy and giving it to poker site.
Just because not as many staking team around that you know of not mean they are not bad for game, you know this but try hide sneaky!

It's why we need to push zoom MTTs.

Proper poker like on the telly but without the open-ended time commitment.

Nothing has changed on Party Poker since Duthie, Colette and Patrick spewed their false promises.

One thing has changed in terms of support. They issied an immediate 48 hour template for a response but you're still ultimately ignored or wait 1-2 weeks.

Numerous people in fact have sent emails requesting account closures on your site and support has flat out IGNORED these requests and these players fontinue to lose money to cheaters you are unable or unwilling to stop/ban. (Albeit not a lot of money but moot point). Is this not in direct violation of the simplest liscence obligations from site to player? You people are not running a proper safe business no matter what you say in here

And to Colette, if you don't want to post here and only do because nobody else wants too don't. As a business you have an obligation to interact woth customers to grow your business, improve and quite frankly it seems like a lot of people here know whats going in regards to game integrity than your employees and yourselves which is f' up!

good thread... cant imagine what happens on some of the unregulated sites like ignition and acr

Hehe. I googled one screenname and found this:

https://www.weaktight.com/h/59035829...b4697?simple=1

It's 2/5 cashgame hand from Partypoker uploaded by 07papi (not necessary Partypoker screenname) on 28/4/17. Showing other opponents screennames.

Then I googled another player from that table and found this:

https://www.weaktight.com/h/595ad0de...b45e8?simple=1

It's 5/10 cashgame hand from Partypoker uploaded by bicas (not necessary Partypoker screenname) 5 days ago. Showing other opponents screennames.

Ofcourse I could just send these to partypoker support but I don't care because I don't play at Partypoker anymore because of this. So I just post these here.

Maybe partypoker security team should try google to detect converter users

But yeah: