You have to imagine that he'd quickly be beyond the plo10 level working that closely with solvers at a teacher level of understanding on what JN says are key concepts. Tough to grow your roll on $20k/yr+15hr/day though

yeah, there is that too, 5% rake/30BBmax is pretty ****ing tough

***I would almost certainly lose in every game I play given that rake structure

You clearly aren't subscribers to the content or know anything about it, what a joke.

Guy said he played 10PL, but this was, presumably before he joined the team, then he dedicated 15 hours a day working on the project instead of grinding and working up the stakes, so you guys are taking this stupidly out of context and assuming the quality of work he was making for the mastermind is that of a 10PL player who couldn't beat higher.

That's like saying a retired coach or a statistician or other strategic adviser working for a sports team (say esports or whatever) who couldn't themselves compete at the highest levels cannot offer value beyond the level of games they themselves can compete in, which is, obviously, fully idiotic.

You guys are just trolls who don't use their brain and just want to hose someone for no reason. NOBODY in this entire debate has critiqued the workethic or quality of Filip's contributions, even if the negotiations had gone badly and people have different ideas of what is reasonable/fair and what isn't. It's nothing but troll behaviour from you to attack the quality of work that you are clearly clueless about.

If you don't understand the problem with having an established high-stakes pro fronting a site, selling strategy subscribtions, and outsourcing the work to a recreational PLO10 player, i don't think i have anything to add.

It doesn't even matter if the content is good or not (though i doubt 99% of live-grinders or microstakes player could judge it fairly, probably myself included), it is false advertising.

If jnandez mentioned that the work was done by a PLO10 player (according to himself, in this OP, he clearly himself ****s on the whole situation and make fun of the fact that people are paying for the research of a recreational PLO10 player - else he wouldn't have stated just that..) do you think he would have as many subscribers?
Why not?

No, since the statistician is doing the work of a.... statistician.

In this case, creating strategies highly correlate with playing ability (even though there could be issues like emotional control limiting the ability to perform, but never would it be the case that someone would produce strategies equal of a 2018-highstakes player and be stuck at PLO10)

I don't question his work ethic, how are you even reaching that conclusion? I'm criticizing the selling a product under false pretences.

There is a lot of transparency in the community about the backgrounds and the roles the supporting members have in the team.

There's some opinion based disagreement about how much contributions Fernando has, but it's clear the content is produced by hard working people, and vetted/worked on by Fernando himself to the point of having a reasonably high standard, comparable or better than training site competition.

There's no "scam" about selling work done by a 10PL player; firstly it's not a 10PL player, it's someone who has spent 15 hours a day on solvers and working on creating PLO content, and it's vetted by proven player(s), and secondly there's been transparency throughout that JNP is a team of content producers working for and with Fernando. If you don't want to buy content created by the team, then don't sign up, wtf is wrong with you? Nobody sold this as "content created mostly by Fernando with a few stage hands on the side doing admin stuff", you just think that because you're not familiar with the product and community and assume there's trickery involved.

OP didn't just run the sims . He thought up, and created the content. JN just approved/denied the videos and other content. IMO, that's not what is advertised.

Yes, and Filip is doing solver work of... a solver user. Let me know when there are professional monker solver workers with monker solver degrees from accredited universities that JNP should've hired as their solver researcher instead of lowly Filip who, you seem to think, doesn't know what he's doing and is scamming people by acting like he does.

No dude I actually subscribed and rate the content.
It's Filip that claims it was a scam:

How the **** is this not a clear admission he was participating in a scam?

He literally explains the process in the first post.

Unless Filip is lying, he is literally doing all the work with no guidance from "proven players".
He comes up with the theme, research it, draws conclusion (if you don't think you need actual poker ability to understand how to create strategies and draw conclusions from game trees / solver data........) and package it for production.

= the face of the whole thing does nothing other than giving the go ahead to produce the final result. But i guess this falls under your:

?

Your argument holds value (about not having to purchase the product if I am unhappy with the process) if they were actually open about this. The OP clearly feels the same.

For what it's worth, i purchased both the PLO university and the plo lab.

And if you for some reason chalk up my strong opinions on this to me being "a hater" (usually the go to conclusion for some people) please note that i was not kind in my comments about upswing either.

Jnandez might be the dumbest person of all time for making his video crying about how he was paid without having any actual knowledge of how the whole business worked, well played buddy.

BTW, is there an affiliate I can sign up with to order a scarf? I'm also interested in some highstakes PLO courses created by PLO 10 players, PM those links boys.

Solvers gonna solve. Gto=gto. I dont see a scam. The content is fabulous. I guess Filip did a great job, if he didnt Jnandez would not release the material.

there's a lot more to it than that. there's different levels of understanding in terms of ranges (for both hero and vil), adjustments and bet sizings that can effect your strategy a lot. In advance I'm not opening up the circle jerk of gto=gto ****ing non-sense, the incorporation of node-locking in solvers basically refutes that whole discussion.

I'm not saying that there aren't relevant takeaways from the course; however I think it's very easy to argue that players around the $200+ level are being done a pretty serious disservice, on a host of levels, in the event that content is being written by one person (a possible $10PLOer) and presented by another (a $10kPLOer,) and yes, this is even if the 10ker is vetting the content.

You are subscribing to the course to get inside the mind of Jnandez not some random person you have never heard of.

That's like paying Steph Curry for a 1 on 1 training session on shooting the basketball and instead some random assistant coach shows up.


Sure, maybe it turns out the quality of the course is actually BETTER with that random person preparing a lot of the videos but that isn't what you paid for, so it's pretty misleading upfront.

You guys are overestimating the difficulty of being a monkersolver research guy. I could easily teach my wife in a day how to use monker on my machine and do everything on his list of tasks besides decide which spots to analyze in the first place.

I understand he feels under compensated for the amount of hours he spent working, and I am sure many other workers at low skill positions share the same sentiment.

edit: also overestimating the importance of who the person is that actually runs the sims.. surprisingly the sim gives the same answer no matter who builds the tree

OP said he literally comes up with the ideas and content for each video and what it should be about.

Which if that's their process for content is ****ing awful no matter who is doing it, btw. An outlined streamlined approach from Point A to Z should have been established from the get go not just "hey I know what we can talk about today!"

No, it's a fine process for this content because there are a million spots and it doesn't really matter in what order you tackle them.

These guys came up with ideas like "I wonder if oop should have a donking range on JT6r in a 3b pot... lets run a sim." If you want to give them a lot of credit for that fine, but the fact is that JN or his next data monkey would have gotten to it eventually.

Jesus christ. Are you affiliated with the site? Only explanation.


"Omg it doesn't matter if you paid Steph Curry a lot of money for 1 on 1 training the guy who showed up instead can shoot just fine!"


Also, I haven't seen their content to say otherwise but it certainly does matter in what order content is presented. You can't know what to do on the flop if you don't even know what to do pre-flop, and the same situation for every subsequent street. How the **** can you possibly go from fundamental preflop strategy to then talking about donking ranges on random textured flops in 3 bet pots one video to the next lmao.

Not affiliated but wish I were cause they're gonna be making good money for awhile.

I actually have seen all the content on both sites. For a beginner, yes, it would be helpful to learn preflop first etc. They do have beginner courses. Other training sites also have adequate beginner courses.

They get to charge a premium because they are making advanced content no one else is willing to make, and for that stuff the "order" the material is presented doesn't really matter. I could see how that might be counter intuitive, however.

I mean the whole point of hiring JN is that you figure he should have an idea of which situations take priority in terms of learning from the hours he's spent being successful in real world games. This could go on and on, and it really is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the arguments for not extensively outsourcing solver work, but bottom line, if you're not seeing the disservice here from the anecdotes and examples then I guess go spend your money on the course.

I think it's important for people to know that there is content out there that is actually created by the name associated with the content, and imo if you give it enough time the difference in quality will likely shine through

after reading this and some of other posts I just have a quick question did these guys scam you as well?

Still, it doesn't matter. You are not paying for content and ideas from some random guy named Filip and whatever zany idea he comes up for the day. It almost sounds like he's researching and developing his own game as it comes along and you are paying a premium price for it.

If what Filip said is true, defending this is absolutely ****ing ridiculous on so many levels. The point is to get a PLO break down from an expert in the field. The entire idea is the expert should know what is more important to teach and what is less so. Some random guy coming up with ideas might be wasting hours of studying on **** that while may be useful, is not efficient. How can you not understand this?

I'm curious what level you're playing that you can't see the difference in relevance between concepts. I can tell you as basically a 2/5 reg who's worked with solvers in hold em over the past year, to be more competent in 5/10 and shot take 10/20, that I think certain concepts are much more important than others and absolutely the order matters. Im seriously just sitting here shaking my head, are we even talking about the same thing?

I mean if nothing else a slightly higher level player, or one who has gone through the limits could do a much better job categorizing concepts that would most benefit specific limits... dude there's just a thousand things, idk, maybe if you're looking at moving to 25/50 you just throw random flop groups in piles and that's how you get better, but there are tons of instances of poor understanding/execution of intermediate concepts at 2/5 and 5/10 imo and absolutely theres higher prices on some, in terms of opportunity cost, than others. in my opinion these are the types of players most likely to buy this course, rather than seek out hourly coaching. idk, what do I know as one of them

LOL