why?
what are they doing?

umm, about half of this thread is discussion about them possibly being bots (or, more precisly, humans with real time software assistance), then they got banned about week apart

first thing stars got right in a while

what is the % of player's using illegal software in play at highstakes?

oborra now 40and7... im sure a few other guy's are gonna get the hammer also

probably over 25% are using software most players have no idea about ?

Hope they got every last penny seized. Utter ****ing scum.

I'm quick to stick the boot in to Stars when they do something wrong, so fair play when they get something right.

What could be the proof they are bots though?

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This could mean that 40and7 is just being under investigation, and if he comes back and cleared then props to him for improving as quickly and well as he did.

It took several players to report 40and7 for anything to happen to him tho, so im not amazingly impressed by stars, but sure im glad they possibly got him. If I could get back some of the 120k Ive lost to him that would be sweet. And yeah sick how many players that might possibly be using something and we dont know about. Very sad

Really curious to know how could Stars prove that someone is a bot, if they don't provide spyware software within Stars' client which monitors background software? And if people are smart enough to build illicit 3rd party real time software, I'm sure they're not dumb enough to run it without sandboxing Stars client to VMware?

While I don't really condone breaking ToS by using realtime software to aid one's play, I think it's just inevitable future of the game. While poker is getting more solved by the day, site's should probably invest R&D to pushing poker to platforms where it's not so easy to run automated 3rd party software. Obviously one can never prevent people from inputting game situations to a solver on another device, which is why I think the bothunt is bit of a lost cause.

As for the funds, I don't think anyone's winnings should be compromised, or any refunds given. I would be happy to play a bot 24/7, if there was big enough % refunded if I lost. Can't think of a much better freeroll. It's not like 40and7 was a superuser, no?

im pretty sure stars software monitors background software. no?

Yea it should, atleast HRC is identified.

However if have an operating system where you run the dream machine, and then run Stars under VMware on that OS, I doubt anything can be identified? Even if Stars software took screenshots and sent them over to Amaya, would it even see outside VMware?

This is going to sound ridiculous but there's 100's of bots playing on stars in the HU play money (lol) games. Go open sit at 50/100 and you're almost guaranteed to be sat (within 30 seconds or so) by a bot. I would say play for 15-20 minutes before sitting out and open sitting a new table. Do this a few times and you will realise there is a whole load of players playing the exact same strategy preflop, they have identical bet sizes post flop and similar overall tendencies.

don't get me wrong they aren't very good, but i would bet my life that they are bots.

That message only means that he is under investigation. He should be back soon to make some video unless stars already has damning evidence.

As for refunds, no one got any refunds when hu hyper regs got banned in the last few months.

I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere else, but did Stars do anything like this with Ben86? Seems like prettty much the same situation from what I can tell.

Nice sizing takechip...

that one's easy, they make you record yourself with a camera while playing a session in your usual game, if your playing patterns are somehow different during that session it means you are using real time assistance software. A while ago (I think like 1-2 years ago) most hs regs had to do it, but oborra and 40and7 came later.

is it really so hard to understand the difference between customized solver you use to study and real time assistance software? Noone has ever accused ben86 of botting, that's ridiculous.

I guess so, I completely misunderstood the difference between customized solver you use to study and real time assistance software. I was under the impression that a "dream machine" was real time assistance software.

which part do you dislike? because it seems fine to me

the way term "dream machine" is used in this forum, it has always refered to customized solvers (I think with some exceptions at the beginning, but I'm not a forum historian)

how could they accurately assess anything unless they exact same hands came up and same bet sizing?

that's why i don't see this being such a great method

like, assume you are playing someone balanced, if stars looked at one line for one hand then the other line where you 3bet once and flatted once, idk makes no sense to me that they can verifiably conclude anything

That's pretty ridiculous if true. Any player using real time assistance is going to be good enough to know how to emulate their style well enough to pass that test.

I guess it kinda sucks if you're a good (not great) reg being forced to play HS online. So I guess there's some merit there.

FWIW, according to high stakes DB, they are both losing players in tracked games. Maybe the kill it at 10/20 and lower.

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $25/$50 - 4 players
Rail Hand History Converter

probirs (UTG): $5000 (100 bb)
Lottenice (BU): $5050 (101 bb)
mighty28 (SB): $5000 (100 bb)
Iimitless (BB): $5000 (100 bb)

Pre Flop: ($75)
probirs (UTG) raises to $112, Lottenice (BU) calls $112, 1 fold, Iimitless (BB) calls $62

Flop: ($361) T T 4 (3 players)
Iimitless (BB) checks, probirs (UTG) checks, Lottenice (BU) bets $175.91, Iimitless (BB) raises to $531.32, 1 fold, Lottenice (BU) calls $355.41

Turn: ($1423.64) 8 (2 players)
Iimitless (BB) checks, Lottenice (BU) bets $696.60, Iimitless (BB) calls $696.60

River: ($2816.84) Q (2 players)
Iimitless (BB) checks, Lottenice (BU) bets $3710.08 (all-in), Iimitless (BB) calls $3660.08 (all-in)

Total pot: $10137 (Rake: $2)

Showdown:
Lottenice (BU) shows 4 4 (a full house, Fours full of Tens)
(Equity - pre: 52%, flop: 98%, turn: 100%, river: 100%)

Iimitless (BB) shows 6 J (a flush, Jack high)
(Equity - pre: 48%, flop: 2%, turn: 0%, river: 0%)

Lottenice (BU) wins $10135

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $25/$50 - 4 players
Rail Hand History Converter

Katz0r (UTG): $5000 (100 bb)
zazano (BU): $5047 (101 bb)
probirs (SB): $5219.07 (104 bb)
Lottenice (BB): $5556.75 (111 bb)

Pre Flop: ($75)
2 folds, probirs (SB) raises to $150, Lottenice (BB) calls $100

Flop: ($300) 3 Q 4 (2 players)
probirs (SB) bets $74.50, Lottenice (BB) raises to $350, probirs (SB) calls $275.50

Turn: ($1000) 4 (2 players)
probirs (SB) checks, Lottenice (BB) checks

River: ($1000) 5 (2 players)
probirs (SB) checks, Lottenice (BB) bets $1876.24, probirs (SB) raises to $4719.07 (all-in), Lottenice (BB) calls $2842.83

Total pot: $10438.14 (Rake: $2)

Showdown:
probirs (SB) shows 3 5 (two pair, Fives and Fours)
(Equity - pre: 41%, flop: 16%, turn: 0%, river: 0%)

Lottenice (BB) shows 4 Q (a full house, Fours full of Queens)
(Equity - pre: 59%, flop: 84%, turn: 100%, river: 100%)

Lottenice (BB) wins $10436.14

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $25/$50 - 4 players
Rail Hand History Converter

takechip (UTG): $9124.01 (182 bb)
probirs (BU): $7061.75 (141 bb)
mighty28 (SB): $8732.11 (175 bb)
Katz0r (BB): $5036.25 (101 bb)

Pre Flop: ($75)
takechip (UTG) raises to $112, probirs (BU) calls $112, mighty28 (SB) calls $87, Katz0r (BB) calls $62

Flop: ($448) K 2 5 (4 players)
mighty28 (SB) checks, Katz0r (BB) bets $264.80, 2 folds, mighty28 (SB) raises to $900, Katz0r (BB) calls $635.20

Turn: ($2248) J (2 players)
mighty28 (SB) bets $1750, Katz0r (BB) raises to $4024.25 (all-in), mighty28 (SB) calls $2274.25

First River: ($10296.50) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Second River: ($10296.50) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $10296.50 (Rake: $2)

First Showdown: Board: K 2 5 J 2

mighty28 (SB) shows K A (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
(Equity - pre: 64%, flop: 61%, turn: 80%, river: 100%)

Katz0r (BB) shows 3 Q (a pair of Deuces)
(Equity - pre: 36%, flop: 39%, turn: 20%, river: 0%)

mighty28 (SB) wins $5147.25

Second Showdown: Board: K 2 5 J 4

mighty28 (SB) shows K A (a pair of Kings)
(Equity - pre: 64%, flop: 61%, turn: 80%, river: 100%)

Katz0r (BB) shows 3 Q (high card King)
(Equity - pre: 36%, flop: 39%, turn: 20%, river: 0%)

mighty28 (SB) wins $5147.25

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $25/$50 - 4 players
Rail Hand History Converter

zazano (UTG): $6392.35 (128 bb)
mighty28 (BU): $5132.64 (103 bb)
probirs (SB): $9636.59 (193 bb)
bombuslol (BB): $5112.79 (102 bb)

Pre Flop: ($75)
1 fold, mighty28 (BU) raises to $150, probirs (SB) 3-bets to $500, 1 fold, mighty28 (BU) calls $350

Flop: ($1050) T 4 4 (2 players)
probirs (SB) bets $345.84, mighty28 (BU) calls $345.84

Turn: ($1741.68) 8 (2 players)
probirs (SB) bets $1000, mighty28 (BU) calls $1000

River: ($3741.68) 6 (2 players)
probirs (SB) bets $7790.75 (all-in), mighty28 (BU) calls $3286.80 (all-in)

Total pot: $10315.28 (Rake: $2)

Showdown:
probirs (SB) shows 7 9 (a straight, Six to Ten)
(Equity - pre: 38%, flop: 7%, turn: 18%, river: 100%)

mighty28 (BU) shows 8 T (two pair, Tens and Eights)
(Equity - pre: 62%, flop: 93%, turn: 82%, river: 0%)

probirs (SB) wins $10313.28