So, no more cheating in poker. Not on Rob Yong’s watch.

https://www.pokernews.com/news/2019/...oker-34900.htm

Unbelievable.

Thanks for posting this. Here's a July 19th article from Josem that he published on his blog.

https://michaeljosem.com/2019/07/19/...mmission-logo/

In it, he confirms via the UK Gambling Commission that the UKGC "do not regulate nor endorse this particular [#fairplay] website."

Josem writes in the article that "the so-called 'FairPlay' Initiative launched by Rob Yong has allegedly misappropriated the logo of the UK Gambling Commission, potentially deceiving poker players into thinking that the initiative was approved by the regulator."

For readers who would like to learn more about what #fairplay is and how its initiatives are having a broad impact on current partypoker players, check out the following:

* the PokerNews article linked within the original post of this thread,
* the five Rob Yong "improvements" to party's cash game ecology, (official partypoker website),
* the Partypoker "Protecting" Players by Removing Hand Histories? thread here in NVG.

How do we know there is no cheating or superusers if we can't see the HHs?

This sounds very, very good actually. If a cheater is caught running a bot on site A, it makes sense that he shouldn't be able to sign up to site B with the same credentials/ID and start cheating there.

Or say, someone that is already running a bot on sites A, B and C and gets caught on site A, should be instantly banned with funds siezed on sites B and C as well.

In Rob we trust

I don't know all the ins and outs of how this would work. I also don't really know how this is going to be enforced on poker players that have been deemed to be cheaters... Just make another account. Have an account under a buddy’s name, or your girlfriends name. Cheaters 'gon cheat baabaay...

Also having multiple organizations or whatnot sharing your data essentially... What data are they sharing? In Vegas they have the proverbial black book where casinos will notify other casinos of cheaters or 86'd players or something or that people are winning unusual amounts of money. I know I'm not spot on with the Black Book, but I know it’s something of the sort. So, is it like that?

Concerning this data or information on players... I'm sure websites keep data of players that would seem unnecessary or too private. I'm sure companies know of my amazing google search history that sometimes occurs in the early AM of the night and when I run for president of my local bowling club next November, someone at one of those companies could blackmail be pretty hard. But the question is, of that data, what parts are being transmitted too and from companies or poker sites or organizations? If the FairPlay Initiative wants to be reputable in any way, giving a vague idea of what they are trying to achieve for poker and hoping the community will be lazy and hope its "all for the best" and "things are being handled in our favor and the greater safety of the game" I mean look at Full Tilt… Nope.

I’m not saying the Fairplay Initiative is being vague either. I’m sure that they are getting things cemented and are putting together some ideas on how this is going to take place. However, I think there needs to be EXTREMELY CLEAR guidelines on what data is eligible to be submitted to other organizations. There also needs to be ETREMELY CLEAR guidelines on what must take place for that data to be submitted for either further investigation or monitoring. Should there be an “investigation” what does that constitute? How long will a player’s data be given consideration for review? Or once triggered, does that players data remain in a system regardless of if that player was determined to be not be suspicious or cheating? Will the Player under review be notified?
Or, will certain data of ALL players be monitored across channels regardless of infraction?

There also needs to be EXTREMELY CLEAR protocols for entities that have access to that data. What are the consequences for abusing that access? Fines? Restitution to the player affected.? Legal action? Or are those companies going to have a clause in their User Agreement for the poker website a player is using, that should that data be abused somehow, that by agreeing to use the website, the player forfeits there right to proceed with legal action?
There also needs to be EXTREMELY CLEAR protocols on what happens with players that are deemed to be cheating. All these guidelines should be extensive and available to poker players, and not written in a way that allows “interpretation” in legal setting to shirk responsibility should a violation occur.
Also, what checks, and balances are there to make sure that this model is functioning properly? Taking away Hand Histories seems to be players only way of suspecting foul play or proving it. Taking away access HUDs is one thing. But to take away the hand histories is an absolute travesty, especially considering what Fairplay is supposedly about. Fairplay can start by advocating for HH…

I understand that HH help players fine tune their game and gain an edge over there opponents. How dare they! I didn’t know poker players should always be on an equal playing field. What’s next? You’re not allowed to flat a bet with AA pre, you must 3-bet or 4-bet? On the river if you have the absolute nuts, you can only bet full pot OOP. Or IP you must raise a bet all in with the nuts? You know, to give the weaker players that don’t want to work on their game a chance to get away from bottom pair because we don’t want to offend them. I guess on that note too, maybe MOAR RAKE IS BETTER!!!!!!! But… instead, we can give that rake to rec players to keep them in the game. We can call it the ******ed Bankroll Stimulus Package Initiative. If that’s the case, I’m going to invert my ranges and lose as much money as possible from now on… #BrokeLivingAbortion

HH is also the only way to hold the websites we use accountable, as well as something like Fairplay and its system accountable. To make sure they are doing what they say. Taking this away, puts poker players on the eternal waitlist of Speculation trying to get a seat in the private game of Ethics. What could go wrong?

Personally… I don’t think this is going to work. Or even be a thing in a few years. Or if it is, it won’t garner the reputation for being a beacon for people due to lack of follow through.
I don’t know jack about Rob Yong either. I don’t know if this is just as way to virtue signal to the people. I don’t know if the traction its gained by Party Poker is just a way to encourage people that Party Poker is on the right track so we put our guards down so that in 6 months they can unveil a “revolutionary change in online poker” that’s a toxic Big Fofty for the poker community. But, because of Fairplay it lessens the blow, or because they have Fairplay it must mean the crappy changes they made are actually good.
Instead of rakeback chests they can just send us scratch-offs or something in the mail. Or you can play enough to be eligible to win an online bingo sesh. OR…. They could just take that data they collected and sell it to anyone who wants it, and a certain % of the money they made off it can be given back to the players via a new rakeback campaign.

I dunno… Sometimes I feel like poker is a single mom of 8, on her third marriage. I hope Fairplay isn’t the new hubby on the block playing with our emotions.

It seems suspicious when they announce they are eliminating cheating and at the same time eliminate methods to prevent cheating by management. Those methods are known to have been used at Ultimate Bet and were detected using HHs.

Hah. The guy published a website falsely claiming some sort of association with the UK Gambling Commission, so this seems pretty poor on their behalf.

If they were actually a legit organisation, I don't understand why they would try to deceive players like this.

Having a sort of blacklist across sites and live events would be awesome, but I don't see it happening with all the privacy concerns of the day. Especially in the EU like the article mentions.

Hard to see this being successful. Pokersites are competitors and game integrity is a factor in where people choose to play.

If one site devotes significant resources to catching bots/cheaters and makes that a major selling point why are they incentivised to let other sites freeload that information.

What happens if Rob bans someone bc he doesn’t like them (happened to the person who showed a working hud) then tells all pokersites to ban that player without even having a chance to defend themselves , seems like something could go wrong, I mean ffs sites already ban and seize funds with no explanation or sometimes even can ban players bc winning too much

So, if you had someone else to play on your online account in an attempt to accumulate chips for a tournament where you could play as many ‘Day Ones’ as you liked and take the chips won in each into a live event.
And this was happening while you were out of the country playing a live event.
Would that get you banned?
How wide should that ban be?

No group like this ever starts for humanitarian reasons. They start so they can establish themselves at the top of a power structure, by creating a spot that sits above the current people in charge. If the Fair Play Certified (TM) logo becomes the standard across poker sites, think of the power they'll wield over sites just by threatening to pull their certifications. Think of power they'll wield over the highest-earning players who can be banned across all sites and put out of business overnight. Think of the influence they'll have over legislators by having the appearance of being on the side of good when weighing in on any relevant issues. It's brilliant and should be prevented any way possible.

I hate this. I don't use huds an lose at poker. It sounds like a great way to single out people with no due process. I think certain voters don't understand due process.

Yob Young seems to be an idiot so I don't see this lasting long.

Dear Rob Yong,

Please come join us here in this discussion. I'm sure many players have some valuable feedback and input on how this could work or go down. Maybe, you could be our voice to the companies that show their appreciation for us by slowly killing poker.

Maybe FairPlay can bridge that gap for us. Making poker safer while you have the access to intercede for us on our behalf; you can be our Moses leading us to the Promise Land. It's a win for poker. It's a win for us. It's a win for you. Most importantly though, it’s a win for you.

I understand you might be put on the spot. But a leader of a great revolution can win their supporters over. For example, you can start by addressing potentially bluffing being associated with the UK Gambling Commission. I'm sure this is just a huge misunderstanding, nothing to fear.

Now, I'm not a prophet. But I wouldn't be surprised if you don't come here to take on the masses, though it's probably in everyone's best interests if this venture was truly going to be profitable and accomplish anything, that you do. Who knows, maybe this is all a big stunt; a grandiose, poker themed, philanthropic-looking effort to be the next ethically fronting version of Fyre Festival. You can be the first! Pave the way.

Now, because I’m a reasonable person right now; my blood-sugar is currently stable, and a strange woman just made eye contact with me; I feel pretty generous right now… So, if you don’t show up, I won’t conclude that your absence must indicate that you have ill intentions for your own gain or that FairPlay was a farce. I won’t conclude that you are guilty. I’ll simply conclude that you didn’t show up. That would be unreasonable. That would also, as a poster before me concluded, not allow due process.

I’m serious. Make an account on 2p2 if you don’t have one and hear our prayers.

Your revolution is waiting.

Ship it.

Sincerely,

LA

***Now can someone be my carrier pigeon and take a link of this thread over to homies twitter account and make he’s aware of this. Unfortunately, I wear a tinfoil hat and value my sanity, so I currently don’t use twitter. Thank you. ***

You could try e-mailing him via support@mypartypokerlive.com and/or support@dusktilldawnpoker.com.

i don't believe there's a super user tool for pp, but that Rob plays on the site and admitted, he checked confidential data (to see, who's the player behind a screen name he was playing against), speaks volumes about the integrity

in my opinion, Rob shouldn't be allowed to play on the site, yet alone call shots in terms of security. he is a old school "live poker guy", he should focus on that and nothing more.

Another red flag ...


it sounds good in theory, but i wouldn't trust Rob to make the calls. what if he doesn't like you, bans you on pp for "abusing the button" and now you're banned on all sites?

and what is, when the security team is bad and you get banned unjustified. now you're banned on PS, b/c a small room has hired cheap staff (not that i believe, many sites would join this 'fairplay' thing anyway).

on top of that there are concerns about privacy. i'm not sure, if such a 'cheater data base' would even be possible under regulatory and common laws. so far this looks nothing more like a cheap PR stunt to distract from the recent changes.

Hey Mike,
You are correct this is also not a bad option. At least to get the ball rolling. I will send out an email tomorrow morning. For some reason that option eluded me, partially because…

One of the things that we should value is when someone enters community domain. Holdem Manager (I’ll refer to as HMA), who started the thread on Party Poker removing hand histories, is a good example of this. He/she or a group of individuals sanctioned to monitor and steward that account as ambassadors on behalf of the company, found it necessary to enter the poker community via 2P2. Not to brown nose, but I think Two Plus Two is the most recognizable source of information in poker. Two Plus Two also has the furthest reach in poker hands down. Not Twitter. Not Youtube. Not an individual player. Not another forum.

Over the 6 years I’ve been reading Two Plus Two I’ve seen others utilize 2p2 in a similar manner as HMA, with good results. From poker room managers to software companies, Two Plus Two has been deemed by people or companies as a place to go and develop a relationship with players, access the ecosystem, educate themselves, and seek feedback.
When others take the same avenue as HMA and seek out and acknowledge the necessity of being present and available to players, it’s the beginning of the development of a relationship with the community and shows some level good faith.

Rob is supposedly at least a partner of Party Poker. Maybe not an ambassador per se. Rob is also apparently heading something called FairPlay, and considering what Fairplay is about, it seems that not being present and utilizing something as valuable as Two Plus Two is frankly stupid and makes Fairplay look even less reputable. With something as potentially threatening to the community should it fail or be abused, given the current state of online poker, Fairplay could do a lot of damage.

Personally, I don’t have a problem sending out an email. No biggie. However, further or in-depth correspondence should take place in a public domain such as 2p2. Given the nature of FairPlay, Rob SHOULD be taking into consideration what concerns players may have and there should be some discussion about this. Unless of course FairPlay is a shill for Party Poker to make a tactical move in the future that may affect poker players, and FairPlay will be used as a balm to soothe things over. Which I think is a high likelihood.

In addition, should Rob have a presence on here, there is the opportunity to at the very least keep a paper trail and compare his sentiments concerning what he says is GOING to take place, to what ACTUALLY takes place when things move forward and FairPlay is employed.

Also sending an email is just the beginning. I can only send so many emails. Ignoring one person like me and playing out the clock and letting this blow over is a simple and effective strategy. It’s a winning strategy. OUR best strategy is consistently sticking this in Robs face, and this is the best domain for Rob to meet in a transparent way and for us all to accomplish anything.
As far as the safety and integrity of online poker goes, hand histories are the closest thing poker players have too something resembling civil rights or checks and balances. Should Party Poker not change this, which they f****** need too, and this should become standard across other websites, we are going to have Black Friday II. If not having HH sticks, this is the end bois… FairPlay could be our warped way of changing that…

So, here is the deal. I’ll make a twitter account… I’m not making it because I want billions of followers. I’m not making it because I’m going to be posting booty pics as a “social media influencer” and using my amazing inherited genetic lottery bod to sail through life. But I should at least be willing to venture into that domain for first contact. Also, it could be useful.

I won’t be a complete, toxic a****** either. I will be direct and pointed with my approach and who knows, I may have moments of being considered respectful. But I guarantee you, at some point who ever it is that pulls any weight, or calls any shots, I will find out who it is and reach out to them. I will also most likely become banned from contacting them, someone such as Rob, or someone else he is associated with that is also with Party Poker and maybe apart of FairPlay; will most likely just ban me.

I do wonder where POTRIPPER plays today, lol.

the idea on itself is nice, all depends on the execution tho.

Controversy about the affiliation so early in this process already tells me that this will probably end-up with nothing in the end.

That's the exact moment when anyone without permanent brain damage uninstalls the software.

Content on the Fairplay website has been removed. This includes the UKGC logo. The only message that now appears on the site is Coming Soon.

https://fair-play.org.uk/

We've been check mated...

It depends, could be positive if it's really people that are caught cheating using nefarious software. Or also people that are caught cheating on a live tournament, maybe they can be barred from other casinos if it's serious enough. It would be a positive thing.

But the conflicting messages he passed, like using a pokertracker was some kind of cheating or mixing this with using bots or something similar. Like someone forgot to leave equilab open while playing and could be banned?