Lol at people pissed that rich people make private games online and live, I wonder why

I played a lot with Stongpanyid/bloodywolf who was using RTA and he often acted under 2 seconds
Just because Fedor had a setup that could've been improved doesn't mean a low timebank would stop cheater, it would actually give the ones with better software an even bigger edge on humans.

Super low timebanks are no solution

The subject of the clock came up in the previous RTA thread. Out of curiosity, does anyone know how long it takes to use these tools? For example, does it take a few seconds to enter the hand info after each street? More than a few? Or does the solver automatically pull that info?

If the solver eats up a significant amount of time a player has to act, then it seems the clock offers the most viable solution for the moment, despite some downsides that people have pointed out. The funny thing is, I'd prefer an extremely short clock but a longer timebank (for legitimate players making a tough decision on a certain hand).

EDIT: nm, NINzent answered my question as I was typing.

And yes, as was mentioned in the other thread, it reduces the number of tables a reg can play at a given time. So there is indeed a downside, and one that makes such a solution less attractive to the site. But it might be the price players pay for a little more game integrity.

Hi Kaki

You not see the post a few months back you can get an RTA for 350 bucks w/OCR that you run on a seperate computer and it read the data on your poker pc whilst playing and pulls the sim from a preflop database and automatically pulls up correct turns and rivers and if you don't have that sim it can pull strategically similar textures in a few seconds and if you don't want huge databases it can also solve in real time in a few seconds. All for 350 bucks. He demonstrated it on GG & PS, completely untraceable and only way to get flagged is if players suspect you of using RTA, notify the client w/ sufficient evidence and then they investigate for a prolonged period and eventually ask you to play on webcam.

Suffice to say if you want to defraud potentially millions of dollars w/ zero risk of punishment (except on the rare chance you are somewhat stupid enough to bring your roommates in on it and they decide to G you up) except getting banned from a client which likely don't have a centralized database of blacklisted players and if they do you can always use another credit card and play incognito.. So a fraud w/ a potential upside of millions w/ virtually zero risk and virtually no repercussions if caught. And a plethora of ways to safeguard against getting outed. Again, suffice to say, you'd be naive to think that mid-high stakes (and likely even micros ) are not littered w/ RTA users. That is to say the poker community is vast and maybe on a whole is it 10%, 1%..less? People still make a living and hopefully it is far less than 1% but likely the concentration of RTA users becomes pronounced the higher the stakes & Fedor even suggested it was a prerequisite for playing the nosebleeds the same way say a boxer has to use myriad drugs and designer peds at the highest echelons to even compete. But hey, there's always live poker!

the moment i asked @henribuehler if he's ever cheated in poker he insta banned me like a year ago. I knew he was a shady little *****. wines and crys when he plays cant win so he stakes a bot. what a little **** **** dick. btw i herd he's gonna tiny dink to... and i herd it from a guy named tom

how big the high stakes community anyway? a few hundred people or less?

get ALL of the regulars play verified via webcam for a few days of grinding their usual stakes, then the security department can see if the hands echo their playstyle for months using solver, which im sure is a huge database of hands playing a very specific way.

if the webcam playstyle doesnt match up near perfectly with their supposed "solver" playstyle, (almost assuredly it will be MASSIVELY different if they cheat) then apply to them a permanent ban on GG/Stars/Party whatever platform they are using to cheat, and take their poker funds.

the few nosebleed fish dont need to do this, as they are never using a solver. its a nosebleed reg-check only.

I dont get how its really that hard, these sites print $millions$ of dollars per day and they cannot set up a team to deter against usage of RTA?

Its a simple test. If they pass and the hands mimic their months of possible cheating gameplay, they are clear to keep playing. If not remove them forever. It would look like night and day, with no room to deny the facts of using a solver or not.

Ye short timebanks might help getting rid of guys like fedor who have the sims organized in a folder on another screen and have to open it by themselves, but it won't do anything against all of the cheaters using softwares that automatically open the sim and refreshes the node at every decision point in real time.

Also Jarret, Bodog/Iggy/Bovada is probably one of the sites where there is the most shady stuff going on. Collusion is a thing at high stakes, and the anonymous aspect of it prevents the cheaters from being reported easily.

Including the randoms that pop in that are necessary to the eco system...probably far more than a few hundred

Randoms arnt regs though, its a reg policing strat that requires the poker sites to adhere to. like as i already said, fish or randoms, dont need to do the check. they are NEVER using a solver.


Of course this only works in nosebleeds. To do this at even a mid-high stakes level for the whole population is probably impossible.

I mean for MTT high stakes online 5k+ its literally like the same 150-200 people in every ****ing tourney, it wouldnt be that hard to test them all.

gg online cashgames..
wonder if this is also going on in highstakes MTTs

Yes he can be able to act under 2 seconds for some select spots he might have pre-memorized or easily pulled up but a more complicated tree will require a longer solution/a longer time to look up the solution. We are talking about centaur cheaters here; they are still humans who know what they're doing roughly GTO poker wise and can perform simple actions in a short time (he wouldn't need to consult the dream machine to know that bottom set is a checkraise on the flop).

Anyways yes, read my post, I said short timebanks prevent this type of cheating (manually looking up an offline database of indexed solves). If there exists dream machines that can calculate every spot - within a reasonable nash distance and with a reasonable tree configuration - within 12 seconds or less (to give a few seconds leeway for the human to actually click the correct action) then no, short timebanks isn't a solution.

If this level of dream machine truly is a reality, then the only thing preventing it from hitting every single online game available is objective cost and opportunity cost; if the dream machine costs too much it wouldn't be worth it to use in lower stakes - if the risk of being caught/funds confiscated/potential criminal charges are high, then it wouldn't be worth the initial cost/keeping a large roll on a dream machine account.

If the objective cost of a practical dream machine drops to the price range of 5k-10k USD in total, with little to no risk for the cheater, then I think at that point all public online games 500NL or higher have reached the point of no return.

Lmao, poor roomies getting some heat after buying action from a guy they know to be a cheater

Which is why I said "I can't believe I'm saying this"

Anyways I'm not recommending Bodog/Bovada (or saying you shouldn't play there); just pointing out that a short timebank stops index solves cheating, which is allegedly how this person was cheating.

For anyone still unclear of how RTA's work or suggesting shorter time banks. If you look through this channel you'll see it solved in real time (a few seconds) for multiple tables
You run a huge database of 1755 strategically different flops for each situation for SRP/3b/4B and if you wana get real fancy you can run multiple databases for different player profiles (but this is superfluous for the highest echelons where pool strive to play pseudo-GTO) then the RTA fetches a strategically identical texture (using suit isomorphism) and automatically pulls up the matrix w/ NE solution (and you could even nodelock a **** ton of textures for simplified mixed strat w/ minimal EV loss & ofc you can skew frequencies and deliberately miss-play hands) and automatically pulls up correct turn/river solutions in real time (under a few seconds).

So again refer to my earlier post. The chance of exposure is super low and only decreases w/ cunning users and this case is an outlier I'm sure there's people reading these threads laughing all the way to the bank and gathering information of what to avoid. The poker conglomerates are disinclined to tackle this problem w/ any sort of force or "warchest" as it disincentives players to play and tarnishes their site and security measures! W/ zero effect to their overall revenue. So the cheat-anticheat-cheat cycle never gathers momentum and thus you'd have to assume RTA users are RIFE!


***********

I'm good with super low timebanks. I usually talk myself out of the right decision anyway.

Love all the live/nl50 regs who've never looked at a sim before and don't think solvers are helpful saying this is the end of poker and demanding the guy's head. Meanwhile, the actual HS regs who've posted in this thread are not worried and not demanding everyone play on webcam with electrodes attached to them.

You have one guy (confirmed) cheating out of a small community and it sounds like it was quite quickly taken care of. This thread is proof of the system working; not some big failure.

If sites impose draconian measures like webcams, MnK monitoring, etc. you'll just see action move to apps which are infinitely more sketchy and the games won't run on regulated sites. People just want to play some cards.

Fedor played a ton on Bodog. It's an incredibly sketchy site.

Also I love how all the comments in this thread are directed at cracking down on cash ring NL, when cheating is much more effective in PLO and MTTs.

Curious as to how much evbb/100 this guy's setup added to his WR. A bunch obviously; but even perfect GTO knowledge with infinite timebank won't allow you to play as well as Llinus.

So he was vpning to play on ringfenced sites too? (lol obv unsurprising if hes willing to cheat at highstakes on main sites)

Wasn't talking about Bodog cash games; just exclusively the zone games, which I'm assuming he did not play.

You would have to be really naive to think theirs isnt a bunch of players using it. A smart user of RTA will mix in some non GTO plays so it looks like they dont play perfect all the time. I mean this guy just got caught because of his roommates and he was a 100nl/mtt player that got ahold of it. RTA has been sold on public websites for awhile now.

Yeah that makes sense... So we're talking about basically the same thing here; using a database of pseudo GTO pre-solved sims, so you don't have to actually solve the spot in real time, but simply refer to them. But I'm assuming the difference is this software has some sort of HUD that tells you which action to take (and automatically "looks it up" in the solution database) whereas GlitchSystem was allegedly manually looking it up himself in folders. To be honest, I feel kind of stupid for not thinking about it like that before. I always had a naive assumption that dream machines would at least have to spend time/resources to solve the spots in real time so playing zoom or short timebank games prevented some of the cheating.

A system set up like this wouldn't even need to be expensive or resource intensive... you could run something like on an 5 year old laptop (or a really cheap rented virtual machine)... you just need the disk space (likely an ssd) for the database.

Well I guess I'll take solace in the fact that a guy copying GTO solutions and a good 500z reg are pretty similar nowadays anyways...

**** man your post got me all depressed now. gg

I can't tell if people that say this are being intentionally dense or not. Sites would only need to impose these measures on winning regulars who would be more than willing to comply.

automating it wont exactly be the hardest thing to do.
The fact hes shown to be a complte idiot and is still capable of doing this, should set some alarm bells off to people

Many Europeans VPN onto Bovada, yes. Including Fedor.

[quote] How do you know? People don't like jumping through hoops.

Also, how do you define winning regular? Lots of people don't play like solver and win. Does this also go for MTTs? This sounds like a massive amount of work for the sites and there is surely a reason none have implemented it yet.

Solver usage is also not comparable to chess where no human can beat a computer...you're heavily dependent on your hole cards/draw RNG in poker. A drunk 40/10 will beat Fedor a decent %age.

The people buying action are just as complicit