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Etta James was Minnesota Fat's Daughter Etta James was Minnesota Fat's Daughter

01-21-2012 , 12:09 PM
Etta James, the great singer, passed away. She always said she was the daughter of Minnesota Fats. Go to google images for a picture of the two. It will convince you. They really looked alike.

Fats was in California in 1938 when he met her mother. When Fats was a teenager, Hubert Cokes and Titanic Thompson staked him in New York and taught him high stakes gambling and "the conversation." How to talk up a bet. The challenge, the bragging, the deception, the negotiation of a spot, the special props...left handed, one handed, trick shots. Fats and Titanic were two of the best ever at "the conversation." Once a propostion was agreed on, the bet was usually already won. Fats seemed a laughable buffoon who always lied. Howsever, he was a fantastic gambler at many games, not just pool. He said he never lost at poker, but his wife says he got busted at poker several times. When pool lost favor in America, Fats played more poker in the 1950s.

Hubert "Daddy Warbucks" Cokes, Titanic Thompson, and Fats were together in New York, California, Evansville, Indiana, Norfolk, Virginia and at the Hustler's Conventions for pool tourneys and side action. In New York, Fats beat Smart Henry in a big match with Titanic and Cokes as backers. After the match, Titanic laid a new road name on Fats, Double Smart Fats. Later Fats changed that to Triple Smart Fats. In Evansville, Fats played in the big poker game at the McCurdy Hotel with top gamblers: Titanic, Cokes, and Ray Ryan, flamboyant high roller and expert card player. Pots ran to $25,000 in 1939 money. That poker game was robbed for $150,000. The robbers told Fats to shut up but he would not and rarely did, Titanic and Ray Ryan could never beat Fats at one pocket pool, the gambler's game. Ryan tried to beat him for several days. The guy running the poker game lost big to Fats. Titanic's biographer, Kevin Cook, says Fats beat Ty out of $1,000,000 but I doubt it. Tommy Thomas, Titanic's son, wrote me that his father was playing Fats one pocket the night he was born in 1944.

He started out being called New York Fats. He only took the name Minnesota Fats after the movie, the Hustler, came out in 1961. He said it was about him. The author said it was not. I believe it was. In the novel, Fats had a twitch or tick, and the real Fats did also.

He was a fascinating character that lied and lied and wanted you to know he was lying. He's day, "I can whistle in five languages." or "I am smarter than anyone I know. I know what everybody else knows,a nd no one knows what I know."

Even though he appeared the fool, and wanted to, he made huge scores. At the pool tourneys he would not enter, saying someone would win a $20,000 prize and he'd beat them out of that. He did just that, taking down a series of younger pros who were better shooters. Like his mentor, Titanic Thompson, he never drank or smoked. This was a huge advantage. He'd wait until the young pros were drinking. He's stall, talk, harass, and get home with their money, time after time.

Road gamblers played all games. I doubt that Fats was as good a poker player as he said, but he made consistent money.

When he was matched up on TV with Willie Mosconi, the world pool champion, Mosconi won the match, but Fats won the hearts of the American public. Mosconi got an agreement that Fats would not talk when he was shooting. Fats kept talking. What I like is that Fats would brag about being a professional gambler that had never worked for wages. He'd pull a huge bankroll out and offer Mosconi bets. Mosconi was furious and once sued Fats. This was one of the biggest TV audiences of the year, right behind the Super Bowl. Fats became really famous. He was one of the most famous gamblers in America.

The movie, the Hustler, with Jackie Gleason as Fats, and Paul Newman as Fast Eddie was a huge hit and revived pool across America. It was one great gambling movie. Any serious young gambler should study it. In the movie, Fats was taciturn and immaculately groomed. They used grooming as a metaphor for self-discipline, maturity, and gambling professionalism. That made a huge impression on me. I bought tons of clothes.

Minnesota Fats ended his days at a hotel in Nashville with little money. He'd go to the honky tonks to dance. He had a rubber stamp with his autograph and he'd ask people if they wanted his autograph, and he'd stamp it on a piece of paper.

Last edited by Johnny Hughes; 01-21-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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01-21-2012 , 12:40 PM
In before the whiners. Nice read J..
about Fats. I only learned that Etta James looked like him, and that Fats met Etta's mother in Cali (1938) however.

Last edited by IseizeDeadMonies; 01-21-2012 at 12:45 PM.
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01-21-2012 , 12:56 PM
Another Great Story, Thanks Johnny!!
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01-21-2012 , 12:58 PM
Despite it's age the Hustler's still one of the greatest gambling films ever. Worth checking out for anyone on these forums who hasn't seen it.
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01-21-2012 , 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogsballs
Despite it's age the Hustler's still one of the greatest gambling films ever. Worth checking out for anyone on these forums who hasn't seen it.
Solid acting by Paul Newman.
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01-21-2012 , 01:56 PM
The Hustler is great film noir.
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01-21-2012 , 02:01 PM
The Hustler is a masterpiece.
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01-21-2012 , 02:47 PM
Thanks for this Mr. Hughes.
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01-21-2012 , 03:08 PM
I love these kinds of stories. Lots of fun.
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01-21-2012 , 03:11 PM
She was his daughter? So she no longer is his daughter? Whose daughter is she now?
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01-21-2012 , 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do it Right
She was his daughter? So she no longer is his daughter? Whose daughter is she now?
she died yesterday.
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01-21-2012 , 03:37 PM
I said she passed away. That may not mean the same thing to a hater.
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01-21-2012 , 03:44 PM
The troll's point was that even though she has died, she is still his daughter. Of course it is standard to refer to a decesed person's status in the past tense.
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01-21-2012 , 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Hughes
I said she passed away. That may not mean the same thing to a hater.
Lol. Thanks for the story Johnny.
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01-21-2012 , 03:53 PM
Her death and my love of music prompted me to look into her life. What an amazing woman. I agree it seems more than possible that Fats was her father.
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01-21-2012 , 04:21 PM
I wish someone who knows how to post a picture would go to google images for both names, Etta James and Minnesota Fats. There are pictures of both of them side by side to compare.
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01-21-2012 , 04:35 PM
Thanks again Johnny. Keep'em coming
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01-21-2012 , 04:39 PM
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01-21-2012 , 05:47 PM
Can't be related. Skin colours too different.
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01-21-2012 , 05:48 PM
great <3 for etta
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01-21-2012 , 07:13 PM
There was a movie made about Chess Records in Chicago called "Cadillac Records". During the movie the head of Chess Records, who was in love with Etta, arranged for her to meet with her father, Fats. According to the movie Fats didn't want anything to do with Etta. He denies he was her father. In case some of you don't know, Etta's mother was black.
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01-21-2012 , 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Hughes

When he was matched up on TV with Willie Mosconi, the world pool champion, Mosconi won the match, but Fats won the hearts of the American public. Mosconi got an agreement that Fats would not talk when he was shooting. Fats kept talking.
Nice stuff Johnny...

I poked around for video of this but couldnt find it, if anyone can provide a link that would be great.
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01-21-2012 , 07:20 PM
Why leave out the juiciest piece of info Johnny? Etta James' mother was 14 at the time she gave birth, meaning she was 13 or 14 when James was conceived.
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01-21-2012 , 08:24 PM
A black actor named Billy West was rather well known. He was in several movies. He ran around with Fats in the 1930s. He was the one that told Etta James that Fats was her father. He was kind of famous then. Etta's mother was an underage prostitute and she confirmed that Fats was the father. I read someplace that Fats did meet with Etta and didn't confirm or deny being the father. He was old and broke and gave her his gold watch.

Fats was a real weirdo. It is a bit amazing that he got home with the money against name gamblers such as Titanic, Ray Ryan, and several pool greats. He ate a ton of food. He liked Cadillacs and sometimes had three, one of which his twenty-four dogs slept in.

The Fats the public knew was a blowhard that told stories you were supposed to know were false. He'd tell the audience at pool exhibitions that he had played pool with all the Kings of Europe, had survived threee ship wrecks, two car wrecks, and never lost gambling. Never lost at poker? He had a TV show awhile where celebrities shot him pool. James Garner, who played Maverick, beat him. He had started out as a pool hustler.

There are several videos of Fats, and I think one of he and Mosconi who was obsessed with him and hated him. Mosconi had been a technical consultant on the movie, The Hustler. He did some of the shots, although Jackie Gleason was an expert pool shot and did some also. Mosconi originally said the movie was based on New York Fats, but denied it later heavily and quoted the author often. I think it was based partially on Fats.
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