It's pretty standard to give tips from the pot just won, so they are in effect just extra rake, and I don't think they are a factor in this bet and would probably never be a factor because a player is only / can only bet on themselves winning, they can't bet on themselves losing.

Yeah I didn't mean it's an opportunity to angle, I was just wondering if they have his stack accurate it might be he lost a lot less actually. E.g. he lost 80k but 5k of them are tips.

Then again I don't think HCL would count his actual stack but buy-ins + (wins-losses) which is why I wondered how he has a receipt for the same amount HCL is showing. It's like he didn't tip from his stack at all.

grunching

stream numbers are not fully accurate. both of you messed up because there is no objective proof of how much he bought in for or lost. should have taken a count at the beginning and end of both nights.

if it was really far off either way then it should be easy. but since it appears to be off by about 1k this should be a wash. My verdict: no scam. Just a bad way to bet on something.

I assume that they just periodically freeze frame during the stream, count each stack and then a couple of minutes later show the totals on the screen. I guess if a big pot goes down while they are doing the counting then they will adjust the graphics accordingly before putting them on the screen.

So it doesn't make any difference if a player has won $20K in a pot but tips $200 as I don't think they are aggregating pots won and lost to derive a net P & L for each player, I think they are just periodically counting each player's stack.

Why would you go on twitter and tap the glass? Hope you dont see any money tbh...

I agree with this. However , unless there is an agreement that specifies he must lose the money playing poker, I do not think this argument will work. The tweet said they bet on how much Eric would lose. Doesn’t say they bet on how he would lose it.

Ya kinda makes sense, but its not like persson was going crazy with the prop bets either to save himself the 10k, after the first night he was down 287k already, he was playing the props at 500$/hand for sh!.ts and giggles.

Your saying as if persson was prop betting 80k/hand or something lol The bet was total cumulative winnings/losings over 2 nights, if props cant be involved it shouldve been mentionned before.

Seems like the bet was not clearly defined and the outcome is going to be impossible to verify in either direction.
And so the bet should just be called off.

I would argue they should use the most accurate and unbiased information available to determine the outcome of the bet, if available. In this case, I’d say we can use HCLs numbers

Classic case of the scammer saying first that they are being scammed.

Eric lost $79,600. Now PAY THE MAN HIS MANIES..

This is all stuff you should have worked out beforehand but didn't.
When I've bet props at the table I've never kept separate track of them when recording the end result of that session - but I could understand why you wouldn't want props to count either way for this bet.

Lol@ thinking after midnight should be negated.you bet him on the 11/3 and 11/4 streams. The last 3 hours are part of the 11/4 stream.

if we exclude props he lost a lot more than that though, and that's what OP is betting on, betting that Eric is losing at poker in this line up, so although yeah the number do say that OP should have lost, I think the whole prop bet thing needs to be brought to light

I would 100% agree to those stipulations since it literally is right and wrong both ways.. I told him I would purchase his brand merch if I won as well .. everyone here thinks I’m a Doosh or a dick but I’m seriously the most fair person ever, I just don’t like to be taken advantage of. I hope some of you can understand my pov ..

I can see your point of view and I also understand why the exchanges between you and he got heated.

I can also see his point of view, because he got the to the exact dollar figures and found that he had won by a few hundred dollars, well, won, but only when accounted using that method.

The whole thing is pretty unreal, for the total to finish so close to 80K, for there to be two ways of accounting, both of which are logical, but that add up to a winning bet for each player,
plus, throw the prop bets factor in too.

The $10K itself is probably of no real importance financially to Eric Persson, but his pride and his reputation are, and it is quite similar for you, in so far as $10K means something to you but it's not going to make or break you, but you also like him want to defend your pride and your reputation.

As one or two recent posters have said, the situation is looking unresolvable, neither side is 100% in the right.

But what you can both do is make the peace with each other, agree to agree to call it just a very weird situation and both admit to the other that you regret getting so heated in the Twitter exchanges. You can then both move on and come out looking good from the situation.

Sometimes in life one can do absolutely nothing wrong, but a strange situation is thrust upon you, you act instinctively because that is the only possible way to act in the moment, and then things spiral and can career out of control. Making peace with each other will end all of this.

yeh i mean i think they should just double or nothing, i dont think eric did anything malicious, but the idea that prop bets would count just makes the bet completely pointless. I dont think eric owes either, i think they need to run it back

There's no accounting method that shows the OP won. OP is literally claiming that the cumulative winnings total presented on stream is false. Prop bets are another factor, it's unclear how those are accounted for in the on stream totals. I suspect they might not be included at all.

Nothing about anything you've said has demonstrated you're remotely fair let alone "the most fair person ever".

Nobody in here knows you or Eric and yet everyone is telling you that you either lost or the bet should be a push and you won't even consider those options. You called him a scammer within 12 hours of the stream ending for not paying you on a bet you probably didn't win.

So how are you fair exactly?

At first sight it looked like he had won, based on the rounded buy in and end figures, buy yes the total was under an 80K loss when those rounded numbers are ignored and the actual difference between the non rounded numbers is calculated.

Prop bets can't count. OP is just getting scammed that way. No way OP ends up paying anything, Persson should just pay the 10k and be done with it.

Shamefull that someone that claims to own 27 casinos is trying to welch on this...

The issue i have with saying eric needs to pay is that we don't know what he would have done if the prop bets put him on the wrong side, they're both at fault but considering eric is the rec and the op is supposed to have the sharp end of this, it's kind of on him to structure the bet properly which he failed to do. Eric cannot win the bet the way it stands, but a mutual error goes to the rec and in this case eric is awarded the lesser of the two free rolls by getting a mulligan, this is partially negated by making it a double or nothing bc if ops side is sharp it's actually even better for him this time since we've doubled the stakes.

That's why i say they need to run it back.

Was already struggling with OP's position from the beginning.

This is why I avoid Twitter. Like, why to people need to do this in the first place? I mean, OP can do what he likes and this certainly doesn't invalidate his bet, but..ugh.

But that's not what really had me questioning things - it was the way the whole thing was presented. Only one side is presented, a question about Persson's stance is ignored, legitimate points by others never acknowledged. But this one took the cake for me:

Like, c'mon dude. "what is 949k - 742k ? if you say 208k you need to go back to 3rd grade." - he did an excellent job explaining things, and "enough about the rounding" is a ridiculous response, since as he's illustrated, rounding is precisely how you get to the $80 K figure. If you want to take issue with the figures being used, that's fine, but don't pretend like the math in the post you replied to was flawed.

You might want to be careful with the "if yall want to get technical" bit:

He lost precisely $0 "between Nov and Nov 4th".

All that said, it probably wouldn't be a bad outcome to have some kind of a redo on this. One that is far more explicitly spelled out.

at one point on friday he was like "****" then paid Patrick money for his flop prop bet. so if you figure out the prop bets you might have a better case. altho it seemed he lost a pretty big prop here so it will probably lose you the bet

Dude should have really just put his money on Mister Doctor Batman in stead of trying to troll Eric.

Thread seems like a defense mechanism. Also, tweeting Doug and Deeb won’t get you anywhere, they’re not anxious to look dumber than they already do wrt the ‘HCL Stream Scam’

If I were you I’d be happy to just walk away from this.

cOUNT THE POTS HE TIPS WAITRESSES MAYBE, THOUGH ONCEI HEARD HIM SAY MY WIFE IS IN RED SHE WILL TIp you. Nuy of he l;likely tipped dealers and you have a bigger L incoing.