long time lurker here and professional poker player since 2010.

I had previously keep my mouth closed around this for a long time but lately I can not keep it in anymore. I have been a fan of pio solver and say that it really has taken my game to the next level over the years. I was always concerned that it would lead to this scenario and now here we are.. we now have RTA promoted by big names such as Fedor Holz and 2p2 marketplace offers two that can be used in real time.

discussion question-
will this be standard tools for a pro online player to use moving into the future?

note-
quitting poker is not an option because imo the games are still great and profitable (I play midstakes nl500) even with the tools available many players are still not good. people always say the games will be dead in 5 years but then every 5 years they are wrong

Just write a solver to solve the solvers, duh.

Someone please wake me when the bots start leveling themselves....

I guess just about all regs are allergic to playing games where you can't memorize general strategies and take too much memory for computers to come close to solving.

Has it already been 5 years since one of these threads popped up? The answer is still the same: as long as there is liquidity and the players you can beat then it doesn't matter what tools the pros are using. With that being said, as the market matures and the action players continue moving to the 4 card games it's quite possible that your NLHE adventure may indeed be coming to an end, which will probably happen in the next 5 years ;-)

I think the current NL online games are already unsustainable with their truly pitiful reg/rec/bot ratios and it's only going to get worse, while PLO games are flourishing and it's like 2005 all over again.

I have played a lot of PLO I still have to say that NLHE is still the most action game online (super high-stakes maybe not anymore). actually I am happy to learn any new game type if it is coming to that because i just love poker but PLO imo it will always be below holdem. I will also add that I don't think that 4card is not able to be solved the same way, it will even be easier in some ways because of the pot limit.

what a bunch of nonsense ye im sure the casuals money will end, its not like they have jobs bussineses. gambling will never die its too entertaining to ever dissapear and poker has its niche as a diffrent form of gambling and an alternative to gamblers sick of losing to the house. thats like saying in 10 yrs no one will play blackjack anymore because the game is unsustainable, pleave have some brains

This is why I only play double-board Drawchevel

Hey short-bus, I applaud you for making an attempt at reading as well as writing, considering how badly the education system has failed you, but you should still try to be kind to people and proofread your drivel so their eyes won't bleed as much after reading it.

regs play whatever recs want to play, ever looked at the midstakes lobby for anygame other than nl or plo?

maybe I can take a stab at what @itachi124 was aluuding to.

In threads talking about "poker" as in will it die, where it is going I believe most are talking about poker in terms of pros playing with an opportunity to work hard and have positive win rate over time. Poker in that sense continues to decline. Can you do it? for sure? will it be harder next year and the year after? probably. Is this the "poker" that was referred to in the OP?


Poker for the masses is a game of chance, with the added benefit of some skill. There is NO expectation of positive win rate over time. Would they like? for sure. Do they try to achieve it? hell yes. If they don't will they keep depositing, yup.

Its entertainment, like blackjack. In that sense poker is alive and well and always will be. Its a great game, thats fun to play, especially for people who want to gamble but would be bored playing slots or table games. Every once in a while poker recs bink a cash or win in a tourny or has a winning cash game session. Thats all they need before they eventually and quite happily make another deposit to the rake gods.

finnaly someone understanding whats happening, as in terms of regs playing vs other regs that form of poker is dead since like 2010 or something when hu kinda died. i think evan poker being harder over the years is not necesarily true i think its kinda random based on how market evolves, like now with gg poker and covid situation is in much bettter place than in like 2016.

it's the icing on the cake that fedor holz will get a pass for using rta because his a 'nice' guy but no one is going to question that he had access to this when he is grinding online? this is a joke that he advertises it to the public and no one calls him out? the 30m+ he has taken out of the game was not enough for this greedy scumbag lol

Originally Posted by Itachi1234 View Post
what a bunch of nonsense ye im sure the casuals money will end, its not like they have jobs bussineses. gambling will never die its too entertaining to ever dissapear and poker has its niche as a diffrent form of gambling and an alternative to gamblers sick of losing to the house. thats like saying in 10 yrs no one will play blackjack anymore because the game is unsustainable, pleave have some brains

Kind of funny that someone asking to have some brains writes like a toddler. Thank god I have her on ignore. Wish it worked with quotes allso.

I think that the chance is over to investigate fedor for rta

I'm sure there are some regs that have skills other than bumhunting?

Edit - surely the simplest solution is to make all standard tables dealer's choice and police the heck out of it. If you think the fish just want to play NLHE and you're scared to play without fish, then you have a Rush pool for that. Would it be commercially viable? Who knows, probably not

That's why I decided to become the end boss of high stakes no limit badugi

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, an airplane
Lenny Bruce is not afraid

The end of online poker as we knew it was when all the bad regs started becoming familiar with solvers. Sure there are still fish in the games, but not nearly as many, and even some of the fish are now halfway decent. Win rates aren't anywhere near where they used to be. The games are definitely still profitable, but the amount of time and work you have to put in now is not worth it for many of the pros to continue.

Live poker is a better bet right now. Or just playing online part time and spend some time learning and earning in other fields. Playing poker just for fun is ok too. Just cause games are still profitable doesnt mean your hourly wouldn't be greater doing something else with more upside in the long run.

bad regs still do not use solvers and if they will they are not doing a good job at it

Online cash may be dead, but poker is still very much alive, imo. Online MTTs, live MTTs and live cash are surely very alive.

imagine thinking any form of gambling will ever be dead )) in terms of entertainment there is nothing like the thrill of gamble for someone with money that likes that type of adrenaline, its as old as prositution and will never die. it might be regulated here and there but will always come back to surface through underground untaxed unregulated gambling.

I started playing in 2010 and this is exactly the same thing people were saying then yet NL is doing just fine sans the highest stakes.

The following video is gold to anyone that thinks that online poker is dead. I'm sure many of the people that complain are often also the people incapable of doing these things well.

I'm very good in satties. I've never tried to satty a 500$ tournament before, and could never afford one. I'm affording 200-500$MTTs and satties in any of those series with the big ones. I think if you play MTTs, and if you are actually pretty alright, it's smart to play healthy buyin ones. It will always be smart.

can you please elaborate

ambition