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The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK?

04-30-2023 , 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus122
This is just another example of why the UK has 10 percent inflation now.

They say of most concern is a proposed affordability check.

People in the UK can't afford to gamble because all the regulation makes it an unattractive place to open a business and create jobs and production.

China and India are going to be the new superpowers. They are the producers. We the West are the consumers.

Producers get rich. Consumers go broke.
I am not qualified in economics but do understand one of the principle causes of inflation. The excessive amount of money in circulation. That is, too much money chasing too few goods and services. During the Covid-19 lockdowns the government pumped billions into circulation in the form of 'Covid payments' to families struggling to meet their living costs due to lockdown. This money was borrowed from banks not government coffers, with the taxpayer footing the bill. The money itself is printed or issued electronically via credit and is inflationary because its not backed by good and services.

China's economy is overtaking the United States but the United States and its vasal states are in a cold war with China. The West is slowly decoupling from China. The Chinese are also prepared for the decoupling by creating their Belt and Road initiative and international currency Yuan to help facilitate trade, bypassing the US Dollar. China's dual circulation strategy will focus more on manufacturing for internal consumption, and less on international markets, while trading with nations signed up to their Belt and Road.

Multinational companies are moving out of China and relocating to other low waged economies such as Vietnam, Indonesia and India. Although China will continue to grow, made in China products will decrease in the West in decades to come. But China will remain a threat to US global hegemony despite the decoupling for the stated reasons above.

The United States highly values the markets of East Asian for itself, and the region must be controlled by Wall Street and Goldman Sachs rather than the CCP. For that reason, the present cold war between the West and China will likely go hot in the South China Sea within the next decade.

Last edited by 6Devil6Trips6; 04-30-2023 at 07:19 AM.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
04-30-2023 , 11:31 AM
The reason we have got less money is brexit.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
04-30-2023 , 03:24 PM
as an online pro based in UK its getting more and more difficult to deposit money on sites ( especially for midstakes ), I have sites where Im not able to deposit enough to play midstakes online due to either a low deposit limit ( after kyc and affordability check ) or a monthly loss limit, or even a daily balance lock ( ggpoker ).
This is after providing kyc and affordability checks.

Main reason for this is some sites dont accept " professional poker player " as a profession and arent sure how to deal with lack of payslips, some even believe its not possible to beat the house.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
04-30-2023 , 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6Devil6Trips6
I am not qualified in economics but do understand one of the principle causes of inflation. The excessive amount of money in circulation. That is, too much money chasing too few goods and services. During the Covid-19 lockdowns the government pumped billions into circulation in the form of 'Covid payments' to families struggling to meet their living costs due to lockdown. This money was borrowed from banks not government coffers, with the taxpayer footing the bill. The money itself is printed or issued electronically via credit and is inflationary because its not backed by good and services.
The UK incurred such high inflation because energy prices soared, resulting in huge profits for the energy sector. In addition, supermarkets and other companies have taken the opportunity to ramp up their prices to capitalise on the situation and increase profits.

The inflation is not due to "too much money chasing too few goods" or that consumers have large disposable incomes and driving prices up. USA helicopter dropped money to most citizens which is pretty astonishing and still didn't see inflationary levels seen in the UK.

UK households have seen their money disappearing for years. First it was under the guise of Brexit, then truck driver shortages, Covid, Ukraine war etc.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
05-01-2023 , 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masq
The UK incurred such high inflation because energy prices soared, resulting in huge profits for the energy sector. In addition, supermarkets and other companies have taken the opportunity to ramp up their prices to capitalise on the situation and increase profits.

The inflation is not due to "too much money chasing too few goods" or that consumers have large disposable incomes and driving prices up. USA helicopter dropped money to most citizens which is pretty astonishing and still didn't see inflationary levels seen in the UK.

UK households have seen their money disappearing for years. First it was under the guise of Brexit, then truck driver shortages, Covid, Ukraine war etc.
Yes the increase in energy costs has an inflationary effect. It's called cost-push inflation. The money the government pumped into circulation during Covid lockdowns wasn't based on available wealth and services. They simply created it out of thin air by 'borrowing' from the banks. The banks themselves simply create the debt by inputting the sum into their computers, and then issue the money electronically, while saddling the taxpayer with the debt to be repaid by real money. So yes, such a system of borrowing and lending causes inflation. It's how the fractional reserve system works.

Quote:
In the first year of the pandemic, from April 2020 to 2021, it borrowed Ł299bn, the highest figure since records began in 1946.

The government is expected to borrow less in the current year, April 2021 to 2022, though the figure could still be more than Ł200bn.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52663523

Of course, the government isn't going to blame the inflation on their decision to pump billions of funny money into circulation during lockdown. So they spin it and blame it on Putin, or some other scapegoat.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
05-04-2023 , 05:22 PM
I had deposits blocked on one poker account despite me being up about Ł25k on that site purely because of some credit check thing they did and the fact I was somewhat regularly depositing Ł1k/Ł2k (but also withdrawing). I was free to play with the funds but I couldn't deposit more? Makes no sense.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-08-2023 , 01:39 AM
Any developments on this topic at all?

It makes no sense to have to be super over-rolled to play the games we play simply because of sites not being able to provide the games which in turn makes forces us to have 2, 3, 4 lobbies open and consequentially many many buy-ins literally stopped on every single site simply because we can't deposit, not even if the deposit amount is smaller than any previous withdrawal amount.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-08-2023 , 03:07 AM
The proposals and consultation have been published. The affordability stuff starts at page 35 of the "proposals" link. The consultation covers a lot of stuff but you only need to complete the bit that interests you.

The two key points imo are that you can apparently continue to play during the assessment, but not deposit. It doesn't say anything about what happens after the assessment or if you ignore the assessment.

This is the most significant point, from page 37 :

Quote:
Binge gambling Enhanced assessment Ł1000 net loss per rolling 24-hour period, Ł500 net loss per rolling 24-hour period [under 25]

In addition, positive net position in preceding 7 days may be taken into account
So anyone who loses these amounts over 8 days will fall in the trap.

The "Significant losses over time" check is slightly better Ł2000/Ł1000 for under 25s net loss in rolling 90 days, takes into account winnings from the previous 90 days.

Anyone filling in the consulation should emphasise that the "binge gambling" definition will scoop up people who are long term winners and lead to unneccessary checks and winnings from a longer period should be included.

I haven't responded yet as I am thinking about how best to approach the unaddressed issue of what happens to people with enough on deposit to play, who either "fail" or ignore an assessment. Probably best to ignore it and hope that it ends up as written and we can continue to play with deposits.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-08-2023 , 05:19 AM
Yeah its a bit of a joke. I get an email off gg poker constantly asking about my gameplay, stars wont let me deposit more than $500 a month and partypoker have restricted my sports betting account even though i use it for fun ( i legit play poker)

Acr is the only site ur left at ur will but then ofc u dealing with unregulated sites..

It feels strange i see gambling adds on tv every second ad but poker completely stopped last few years. Its almost like they are trying to tell us something.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-08-2023 , 05:53 AM
And just like that i get an affordability check from gg poker because of regulations and my level of play.

Gg
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-08-2023 , 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davmcg
The proposals and consultation have been published. The affordability stuff starts at page 35 of the "proposals" link. The consultation covers a lot of stuff but you only need to complete the bit that interests you.

The two key points imo are that you can apparently continue to play during the assessment, but not deposit. It doesn't say anything about what happens after the assessment or if you ignore the assessment.

This is the most significant point, from page 37 :



So anyone who loses these amounts over 8 days will fall in the trap.

The "Significant losses over time" check is slightly better Ł2000/Ł1000 for under 25s net loss in rolling 90 days, takes into account winnings from the previous 90 days.

Anyone filling in the consulation should emphasise that the "binge gambling" definition will scoop up people who are long term winners and lead to unneccessary checks and winnings from a longer period should be included.

I haven't responded yet as I am thinking about how best to approach the unaddressed issue of what happens to people with enough on deposit to play, who either "fail" or ignore an assessment. Probably best to ignore it and hope that it ends up as written and we can continue to play with deposits.
will give my input, have you got a discord group made up or something of the sort for us to plan for this? thanks
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-08-2023 , 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxile
Gambling seems like the biggest virtue signal issue for politicians to hang their hats on.
They can also ban prostitution.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-08-2023 , 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayme87
will give my input, have you got a discord group made up or something of the sort for us to plan for this? thanks
Also in to help with whatever
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-08-2023 , 01:35 PM
We should all fill out the consultation, making the point that long term winners and professionals in poker with sufficient bankroll shouldn’t lose the ability to play because of short term variance related losses.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-09-2023 , 06:38 AM
There isn't a discord group that I am aware of, and not really sure that there is much point. The important thing is that as many people as possible reply and point out that there should be some consideration of the short term variance in poker, particularly MTTs which will result in people who are long term winners and who, due to bankroll management, are not problem gamblers, being caught up in these exceptionally intrusive checks.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-09-2023 , 03:51 PM
When corporations and the government are partners, they use regulations differently. Instead of implementing rules to protect the consumer, they write laws to protect the corporation.

They say it’s to help the customer, but it’s to keep people from constantly withdrawing and depositing funds from sites, which is costly to the companies operating these sites.

So they pass a law that encourages people to leave their bankrolls on the sites, to help the customer of course
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-09-2023 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishreg1
We should all fill out the consultation, making the point that long term winners and professionals in poker with sufficient bankroll shouldn’t lose the ability to play because of short term variance related losses.
Good luck, but I'm not sure they will care. A poker pro is essentially just someone who operates their own little casino. If you say "I make 100k as a poker pro," they might hear "A parasite took 100k off people with real jobs."

I'm a parasite too, fwiw.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-09-2023 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2
Good luck, but I'm not sure they will care. A poker pro is essentially just someone who operates their own little casino. If you say "I make 100k as a poker pro," they might hear "A parasite took 100k off people with real jobs."

I'm a parasite too, fwiw.
I’m not going to disagree about us being parasites. But if their intentions really are only about reducing problem gambling, we aren’t problem gamblers so shouldn’t be affected by the new proposals.

It only takes 15 minutes so is worth a shot imho
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-09-2023 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masq
The UK incurred such high inflation because energy prices soared, resulting in huge profits for the energy sector. In addition, supermarkets and other companies have taken the opportunity to ramp up their prices to capitalise on the situation and increase profits.

The inflation is not due to "too much money chasing too few goods" or that consumers have large disposable incomes and driving prices up. USA helicopter dropped money to most citizens which is pretty astonishing and still didn't see inflationary levels seen in the UK.

UK households have seen their money disappearing for years. First it was under the guise of Brexit, then truck driver shortages, Covid, Ukraine war etc.
Too much economic illiteracy for one post.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-09-2023 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishreg1
I’m not going to disagree about us being parasites. But if their intentions really are only about reducing problem gambling, we aren’t problem gamblers so shouldn’t be affected by the new proposals.

It only takes 15 minutes so is worth a shot imho
Problem gambling has decreased in recent years. It isn't a problem that needs solving.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-09-2023 , 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snagged
Problem gambling has decreased in recent years. It isn't a problem that needs solving.
Hard disagree, it is a monumental problem amongst young men in the UK and whilst these checks are an inconvenience to me personally, I am all for the powers that be doing something to tackle what is a truly awful problem for one to have.

Having said that if someone could link this thing for us to fill out I'll happily do my part. Sorry, I only skimmed the last few posts and didn't see it.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-10-2023 , 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GazzyB123
Hard disagree, it is a monumental problem amongst young men in the UK and whilst these checks are an inconvenience to me personally, I am all for the powers that be doing something to tackle what is a truly awful problem for one to have.

Having said that if someone could link this thing for us to fill out I'll happily do my part. Sorry, I only skimmed the last few posts and didn't see it.
Would be great to see your evidence for such a statement.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-10-2023 , 04:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronian15
Would be great to see your evidence for such a statement.
Evidence? Who needs evidence when GazzyB123 has a hunch?
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-10-2023 , 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GazzyB123
Having said that if someone could link this thing for us to fill out I'll happily do my part. Sorry, I only skimmed the last few posts and didn't see it.
https://consult.gamblingcommission.g...rts_regpanels/

The “ Remote gambling: financial vulnerability and financial risk“ is the most relevant section
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote
08-11-2023 , 10:34 AM
I thought it was pretty widely-known that with the proliferation of betting shops on high streets next to vape shops and betting firms advertising on football kits that problem gambling has increased across the board but particularly for young people.

A problem with official stats on this could be that a small change in what counts as problem gambling could easily massively change the stats and make it appear like it's getting better or worse depending on the prevailing political winds, not on whether it's actually getting worse. That happened for example with dog attacks a few years ago, I remember well the evening standard going for the sensationalist headline about dog attacks increasing by some vast %age but it turned out it was just a change in what counted. This being somewhat of a hot button issue means the stats will be widely manipulated to serve the agenda of whoever's in charge.

Regarding what we as professional poker players contribute, I don't think it's correct to say we're parasitic in nature, no more than, say, a writer or actor is. We're in the entertainment industry - we're the product of a society that is producing more than it needs, so some people can stop working the fields and start providing others with services not to do with farming / construction / all the other vital services. We charge money to gamblers so they can gamble with us and get whatever enjoyment they think they get out of it. A parasite would be a middleman who adds nothing to the experience; live, at least, we are the experience, thus the need to be friendly at the table. A grumpus old man nit at the casino playing 15% vpip is closer to a parasite. Online the equation is slightly different, it's slightly more purely the competitive aspect to it that we provide. But in general we're in the same line of business as a casino, and we should behave like one to our punters.
The end of mid-stakes poker in the UK? Quote

      
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