Yea, I looked at that and said, hard pass.

Stickman beasts LHE and PLO biggest games on Internet for 20 years

Didn't they play like $100,000/$200,000 at one point? How would a loss of 100 big bets even begin to matter in a heads-up match?

if the whale quits him because of the loss I'd say it matters a little.

Top 20 bumhunters of all time would indeed be an interesting list.

Because if you're going to make the argument that Sklansky is a top 20 poker PLAYER because he COACHED a man, you would expect to evidence to be that his student did well, not lost a sh*tload of money.

Effectively, the 20 greatest bumhunters of all time across all poker venues (live, online, cash, tournament, private games, etc.) would also be the greatest poker players of all time.

Because poker boils down to making the most money with the least amount of risk, which in turn comes from putting oneself in the position to have the highest possible edge at all levels: table selection, opponent selection, play of the hand, and so on.

Chip and Doyle, JRB and Robl, highly disciplined EV grinders like Sklansky, many anonymous online bumhunters. These guys have achieved the ideal: the maximization of profits via the maximization of edge while minimizing risk.

The worst players would be the "artists" who are so insecure that they they actually value beating the toughest possible opponents in order to prove to the world how good they are even though at the end of the day they have reported 30 million in gross winnings but have nothing to show for it because it cost them more than that to win that publicized win. To make it worse, they didn't even put themselves in and are working for pennies on the dollar. Even worse are the players that are focused on titles, bracelets, and trophies but are known to lose money.

The bumhunters are kings.

Nobody forgot, everyone just understands that a decade+ of good behavior is sufficient to consider his reputation rebuilt. (in before 'Hi Justin')

In no order

1) Doyle
2) Johnny Moss
3) Chip Reese
4) Johnny Chan
5) Phil Galfond
6) Daniel Negs
7) Phil Helmuth
8) Phil Ivey
9) Erik Seidel
10) OTB Red Baron
11) Berri Sweet
12) Linus Love
13) True Teller
14) Justin Bonomo
15) Bryn Kenny
16) Michael Addamo
17) Ben Sulsky
18) Jungleman


I think all these guys are locks.

Room for 2 more.

19) Patrick Antonius
20) Fedor Holtz

Perfect list

I was a really successful HUNL bumhunter once upon a time and I adamantly disagree with this.

1. Phil Ivey
2. Linus Loeliger (LLinusLLove)
3. Jonas Mols (OtB_RedBaron)
4. Mikita Badziakouski (fish2013)
5. Timofey Kuznetsov (trueteller)
6. Patrik Antonius
7. Dan Cates (jungleman)
8. Stu Unger
9. Phil Galfond
10. Doyle Brunson
11. Ben Sulsky (sauce123)
12. Sami Kolepuro (LarsLuzak)
13. Niklas Astedt (lena900)
14. Chris Moorman
15. Daniel Negreneau
16. Erik Seidel
17. Johnny Moss
18. Phil Hellmuth
19. Justin Bonomo
20. Shaun Deeb

For 10 years Phil Ivey was the best player at every table he sat at both live and online.

All im saying is if this list was a tourney Fedor wins 100/100 times

This is wrong. David never coached Andy Beal.

Mason

I didn't say he did, just for the record. Someone else said he did and made the case that that was proof that David was the best poker player ever.

This is accurate. Mason was my coach.

Las Vegas is full of legends and myths. Some are true and some are not. If I recall correctly, David Sklansky did coach someone to play the World Series of Poker $10,000 event and the person didn't even know how to play poker.

The way I heard it, the Stratosphere's Bob Stupak had a daughter that wanted to play the WSOP but didn't even know how to play poker. David devised a "play face cards and ace hands" strategy and go all in with it. And she did well.

Instead of hearing it, you could just read about "The "System"" in David's book Tournament Poker for Advanced Players.

Mason

Is this just based on player skill or more?

Because how can it not include someone like Mike Sexton. Who as well as being a good player, also did a lot for the poker world. I mean if jennifer Harman is on that list - awful player who worked for corrupt company - then how is Sexton not on it?

And equally how can Isildur not be on peoples list? Anyone who takes a short amount of money and turns it into millions in a relatively short amount of time in poker, surely needs to get a mention just out of principle

It simply isnt true. Whales are usually intelligent people and get tired of being bum hunted. So then your action dries up - so in the long run, your not actually making money.

but most of all.. its a flawed logic imo. People are always looking to improve or better themselves in any situation or sport in life. So continually looking for weak players is not a winning strategy in the long run imo... and i think youll find eventually that your skills and abilities arent "sharp" and its actually you who has become the Whale without realising it!

Kevin Rabichow and Patrick Leonard should absolutely have been on the list.

If I were to bet on anyone at anytime in probably the past decade in a heads up challenge or even if there were some way to measure top level coaching content as it pertains to "no limit" holdem my money would be on K' rab.

Similarly Pad's is the best mtt player/coach of all time.

Disclaimer: Neither have coached me but I've been a member of RunItOnce and watched much of K' rab's content and seen a fair bit Pad's content as well.

These guys are not only both exceptionally great at explaining the "why" of poker in the solver era but also implementing it as well in game with proof in their results. The only thing arguably holding either of them back is they haven't developed huge social media followings/training sites and they both sort of fly under the radar and they aren't some sort of Ilsidur risk it all type personality. They've both played within their own personal risk tolerance.

btw, according to my pocketfives Pads is currently the #1 rated mtt player in the world, not counting that he has also been there in the past as well. How the hell isn't he on the list when you include bencb? and others. bencb is awesome too but the fact that you guys missed both these quiet killer heroes is a travesty.

K' rab also gave some of the best poker commentary theory ever during that recent Head's Up poker tournament, about six month's ago, etc. He's an amazing talent of information and skill.

Whatever though, I get it and neither were probably likely to be in the top five overall based on the vote but they should have been included in the mix. Hope at the very least maybe my message will send more people over to their coaching avenues because both these guys really "get" poker at an undeniably high level yet also have the ability to pass that knowledge on in a very absorptive way. Maybe I shouldn't personally want that to happen as I still play the game but these guys deserve credit where credit is due.

The thing that stuck out to me the most was this. WPT is really looked at as B level or C level tiered tournament. I saw WSOP numbers mentioned, FTP-Stars success, WCOOP, SCOOP, High Rollers. Anyone who had WPT success got zero mention of it.

Ggs to they guy !

How come Antonius is so underrated? Most winning online player by far and descent tournament winnings. Still, not mentioned from everyone, though people like linus, trueteller and otb etc are almost always mentioned.

You do realize that Helmuth has bracelets in Razz and deuce to 7, right? Or do you mean he's a specialist in tournaments?

Tournaments.