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Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion

07-02-2022 , 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider
Thanks for seperating this out, not fair to the lodge for this topic to hijack that one.
Thank you for getting up off the canvas and agreeing to take questions at this difficult time.

1) What role, if any, did Brad Owen and Liv Boeree have with Coinflex? IÂ’m referring to the pic taken at the Lodge that is the top tweet on the Coinflex Co-Founders twitter account, where Brad and Liv are tagged?

2) Because we donÂ’t know how you performed your due diligence, can you please tell us how you verified that the coin was in actuality, fully backed? Were you shown doctored records or did you not request to look at the books before spouting such hyperbole as laying 100:1 on that bet?

3) What specifically about Roger VerÂ’s involvement gave you pause to commit to being the Coinflex Global Ambassador? What questions, if any, did you ask about VerÂ’s involvement, given that he was your main concern after vetting LambÂ’s reputation?

4) In describing how you found out about redemptions being paused via Twitter on 6/23/22, what specific actions did you take for your customers, as Global Brand Ambassador, to help ensure that withdrawals would resume as quickly as possible?

4)b In the time period between 6/23-6/28, when you resigned, what answers did you receive wrt to the status of reserve funding and why partial withdrawals werenÂ’t being honored? Your oral declaration is a self-serving and feeble attempt to distance yourself from Coinflex.

You were part of the problem that led to the events of 6/23/22. Less people would’ve lost money on Coinflex had you not promoted them so hard, with such conviction. In what ways did you honor your moral obligation to make a reasonable effort to get to the bottom of this - to be a part of the solution until 6/28/22? When you state “your guess is as good as mine” regarding the status of pending withdrawals, should we infer that you were solely working towards resigning from Coinflex and repairing your rep during those 6 days? Or were you demanding to see the books, to meet with Lamb, Ver, and other Coinflex team members, on behalf of the customers you influenced?

5) You mentioned that with $137mm in flex coin, less the $47mm that Ver owes (of which I have received confirmation of that debt to Coinflex from a reliable source). Did you ask Lamb or any Coinflex team members why the $90mm wasnÂ’t being paid out? Did you do your due diligence and ask to see the $90mm on the books?

6) Mark Lamb has tweeted an interview that occurred earlier today. He came off as a true believer who is racked with guilt and doing everything in his power to right the ship. There was real emotion in that last 10 minutes of his interview. No question was off-limits. He apologized and acknowledged mistakes were made, while complimenting the team for their work around the clock to make this right ASAP. He didnÂ’t make excuses and he empathized with all those suffering from these circumstances. It was a stark contrast to your statement. I can see why you accepted him as a business partner.

What was your reaction to that interview? Would you be willing to do a live interview, conducted in a professional manner?

7) At this point, what do you see as your moral and financial obligation to the customers whom you persuaded to deposit?

8) While it appears that you lack empathy and are extremely self-centered, IÂ’m only aware of your public persona. Had another superstar within the poker world been the Global Brand Ambassador that failed to meet its fiduciary obligations to its customers, how should they expect to be treated by you, as a crypto/poker commentator?

9) What do you anticipate your next sponsorship to look like? What’s the next business venture in the works? What’s the next crypto business venture in the pipeline? Will you continue to “work” in crypto?

10) I have many more questions. Would you be willing to be interviewed by me on camera, live? I would be willing to match up to $1,000 USD that would be used to partially reimburse Coinflex account holders. ThatÂ’s $2k more than anyone else has done for those devastated as a result of these circumstances.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 01:41 AM
lot of naivety in the thread - bash doug all you want, but in no way is someone outside the company hired to help do promotion and marketing going to have any special insider access

you think when lincoln is developing their quarterly marketing strategy they have matthew mcconaughey sitting in on the conference calls and giving his input on how they should react to falling sales in the midwest and north africa? no, they make all the decisions, decide which commercials will be shot and how and send matt a script along with telling him when the commercial shoot will take place

sure, matt could request a factory tour or even a sit down with the ceo or some r&d engineers but again, they wouldn't tell him anything that they woudn't say publicly at a press event, that ceo isn't going to tell him what their underlying strategy is going forward the same as no engineer is going to disclose the top secret designs for their unlaunched ev car

doug may have shown some poor judgement and undoubtably got some of his followers in a terrible financial position, but in no way was he "in on it" nor if he asked them "hey is this a scam?" would they say "actually it is, was hoping nobody asked, would have gotten away with it to but someone finally asked" - likewise, it's ludicrous to think a spokesman would ever be in a position to see the books etc let alone even be in a position to ask to see them - of course doug could have said "i have my concerns about this, can we do a forensic audit of this?" and then they'd likely show something positive - ie with 3 arrows, yes they went busto, but beforehand i'm sure their prospectus didn't highlight that risk very much and instead focused on the positives rather than a what if scenario

not even sure it is a scam either, seems like a horribly inept company that drove itself into self destruction because they didn't understand the risks they were getting involved in
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 01:48 AM
It’s super easy to ask for a companies financials. And if they say no, you walk. Can also ask for quarterly tax statements.

Last edited by PointlessWords; 07-02-2022 at 01:56 AM.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider

I can say the company has a good number of succesful/prominent investors and good references from well established names in the cryptocurrency space.


This is the problem, you asked people in cryptocurrency space. If you asked anyone outside of it, or just with half a brain, they would tell you this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoffcompletely
One thing that Doug did not mention is the actual business model. I find it funny that Doug was there to ring the bells about Bitconnect, yet he apparently thought 15-20% APY is just defy crypto magic doing it's thing? Granted all these high yield scams aren't as blatant as Bitconnect, but at their core they are the same thing. It should be basic knowledge that those kind of rates are pure fantasy sustained (for a short while) by greed and debt and all it took was one market downturn for them all to unravel.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
lot of naivety in the thread - bash doug all you want, but in no way is someone outside the company hired to help do promotion and marketing going to have any special insider access

you think when lincoln is developing their quarterly marketing strategy they have matthew mcconaughey sitting in on the conference calls and giving his input on how they should react to falling sales in the midwest and north africa? no, they make all the decisions, decide which commercials will be shot and how and send matt a script along with telling him when the commercial shoot will take place

sure, matt could request a factory tour or even a sit down with the ceo or some r&d engineers but again, they wouldn't tell him anything that they woudn't say publicly at a press event, that ceo isn't going to tell him what their underlying strategy is going forward the same as no engineer is going to disclose the top secret designs for their unlaunched ev car

doug may have shown some poor judgement and undoubtably got some of his followers in a terrible financial position, but in no way was he "in on it" nor if he asked them "hey is this a scam?" would they say "actually it is, was hoping nobody asked, would have gotten away with it to but someone finally asked" - likewise, it's ludicrous to think a spokesman would ever be in a position to see the books etc let alone even be in a position to ask to see them - of course doug could have said "i have my concerns about this, can we do a forensic audit of this?" and then they'd likely show something positive - ie with 3 arrows, yes they went busto, but beforehand i'm sure their prospectus didn't highlight that risk very much and instead focused on the positives rather than a what if scenario

not even sure it is a scam either, seems like a horribly inept company that drove itself into self destruction because they didn't understand the risks they were getting involved in
It isn't a scam; a scam means intentional. I don't think this was intentional. Like you said, it was horribly inept. But people around these parts associate anything related to loss of funds as a scam, regardless of the reason. The poker community is damaged goods.

I don't think many are as angry at Doug as they are angry at the fact that Doug has been one of the good guys who usually calls out the bad guys, but now some view this situation as making him one of the bad guys. And based on his prior call out history, some of those some don't think he's taking enough accountability for this situation, whether fair or not.

Your analogy about Lincoln and MM is received, but buying a Lincoln and investing crypto on a DeFi platform are two different worlds. To some, Doug = endorser = responsible for the risk and loss of funds.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
It’s super easy to ask for a companies financials. And if they say no, you walk. Can also ask for quarterly tax statements.
Super easy to cook the books too, especially for a company headquartered in Seychelles. I'm guessing they don't require quarterly tax statements.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:07 AM
Doug, I agree with you that Roger Ver involvement is a significant red flag, and like you I wouldn't dismiss a project if his role was exclusively as an investor. However, BCH branding is all over CoinFLEX and their CEO has 'I love BCH' as part of his twitter bio. Didn't that raise any red flags? I couldn't trust the decision making of someone who made BCH a cornerstone of their business model.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:08 AM
If Doug is willing to be interviewed by me, live on camera, in a respectful tone, would that even be a worthwhile addition to the dialogue, from the communityÂ’s POV? If not, IÂ’ll shut my trap.

I will not only do the interview for free, but will commit $1,000 USD of my personal funds towards reimbursing the victims, if Douglas is willing to match that amount and help raise $2,000 for the victims by agreeing to this interview.

IÂ’m not well known in the poker world, but over the last 10 years, I have helped about a dozen poker players recover over $800,000 in non-collateralized bad debt (and much more for other victims who donÂ’t play poker). IÂ’d put my teamÂ’s experience in these spots up against anybody.

Plenty of 2p2ers already know this and while Ive always shunned any and all publicity, including invitations to appear on othersÂ’ poker podcasts, IÂ’d be willing to make an exception this time and come out of the shadows. Maybe IÂ’ll even throw in a few of my more interesting spots over the past decade, strictly for entertainment purposes. In these matters, my judgement is backed by my team 100%. Glgl
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheels2222
Super easy to cook the books too, especially for a company headquartered in Seychelles. I'm guessing they don't require quarterly tax statements.
What’s your point? It’s too easy to fake so nobody should check these things? Is that what you’re saying
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheels2222
It isn't a scam; a scam means intentional. I don't think this was intentional. Like you said, it was horribly inept. But people around these parts associate anything related to loss of funds as a scam, regardless of the reason. The poker community is damaged goods.
You said this better (and more succinctly) than I did. It's particularly interesting to see on a poker forum, where people should be much better than average at not being result-oriented.

We are constantly surrounded by situations in which people made smart, informed decisions but it didn't work out; or made rash/foolish decisions, and happened to get away with it. Happens in business, finance, sports... hell, even a weather forecast is ultimately an educated guess.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
What’s your point? It’s too easy to fake so nobody should check these things? Is that what you’re saying
No, dumb ass. You made a post implying that Doug never reviewed or asked for financial statements or might have even asked and was told no and continued anyway.

So I made a point that even if he did review them, there is no guarantee they showed the full picture. I have no idea if he did, didn't, etc., but that's the point. None of us know what he looked at or didn't look at. And there is no guarantee that everything he looked at or was told was 100% factual, even if he believed it to be at the time.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist
You said this better (and more succinctly) than I did. It's particularly interesting to see on a poker forum, where people should be much better than average at not being result-oriented.

We are constantly surrounded by situations in which people made smart, informed decisions but it didn't work out; or made rash/foolish decisions, and happened to get away with it. Happens in business, finance, sports... hell, even a weather forecast is ultimately an educated guess.
Just like the bad beats are remembered in much more detail than the triumphs, the poker community remembers the scams and bad situations much more than the good.

FTP, other failed poker sites, various well known scammers, etc. And now crypto is like a double or triple whammy with failed ventures and scams, with many in the poker community involved in the space (or have been in the past) in one way or another.

Unfortunately, if Doug does 100x good, all that really matters to some people is the 1x bad in these situations. It doesn't really matter the reason or process to get there to some.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:37 AM
Yes what is your point on that. Do you think he shouldn’t have asked or do you think he should’ve asked ?
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
Yes what is your point on that. Do you think he shouldn’t have asked or do you think he should’ve asked ?
I have no idea if he did or didn't ask. Clearly, neither do you.

If I was in that situation, I would ask. But there is no point in debating it.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:44 AM
I didn’t ask you if you had an idea. I didn’t ask you what you would do if you were in that situation. I asked you if you thought Doug should have checked their accounts before signing on and if not then, then during this time advertising their products.

So, do you think he should’ve asked?
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
I didn’t ask you if you had an idea. I didn’t ask you what you would do if you were in that situation. I asked you if you thought Doug should have checked their accounts before signing on and if not then, then during this time advertising their products.

So, do you think he should’ve asked?
Do you know if he did or didn't ask?
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:50 AM
It’s irrelevant to the question I’m asking you
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords
It’s irrelevant to the question I’m asking you
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheels2222
If I was in that situation, I would ask.
I already answered it, so I don't know why you're continuing with something that's a moot point.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 03:37 AM
Famous investor Warren Buffet said he wouldn't pay $25 for all the Bitcoin in the world.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 03:37 AM
Doug, you might be a poker genius, but you are a real world idiot. Like truly an idiot.

Anyone with half of a working brain sees 20% guaranteed interest and knows that it's a scam. You would more than double your money every 4 years. Do you realize how ludicrous that is?

Let's say in a hypothetical world their balances were fully collateralized. Explain the process of how they can guarantee 20% interest in as simplistic terms as possible.

You keep talking about doing your "due diligence" but that basically just boils down to believing what the Coinflex team told you without actually verifying anything.

Would you play me HU for a million dollars on credit just cause me and a bunch of my buddies told you I was good for it? No, you'd ask to see a bank statement or tax returns or have it in escrow.
You never asked Mark Lamb who you were buddy buddy with to see some bank statements or tax returns for simple proof that their coins were collateralized.

You also keep bringing up the fact that in the end you won't have made any money from this and that it was never your intention to scam people. Neither of those things matter. The end result matters. For you to not understand how you come off as a scumbag after the fallout just illustrates how delusional and hypocritical you are. You keep calling Hellmuth a scumbag for shilling Bitcoin Latinum. How are you now any different than him?

You were paid with FlexUSD that you can't currently cash out, we get it. You were basically given sweat equity for promoting something that you guaranteed was legitimate. I'm sure your payout in FlexUSD would have been commensurate with the growth of the company (aka the number of people you convinced to sign up). Just because your compensation is currently worthless does not mean you can claim you were duped just like the customers of Coinflex were and just absolve yourself of any fault whatsoever.

You thinking that just because you immediately stepped down as their shill the moment **** hits the fan somehow frees you from backlash or being viewed as a scumbag is just laughable. You were the face of a company that you heavily, heavily promoted that promised a magical, unsustainable rate of return. You are a scumbag for taking compensation (or what you thought would be compensation) for a product that could have significant negative financial impact for people. You painted yourself as an expert on the company and crypto in general, but clearly are not.

Again, I want to reiterate just how much of a hypocritical, delusional real world dummy you really are.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 04:25 AM
Hi Doug,

I'm a big fan but not clear on this point sorry.

You keep saying how you are going to make less than $0 if CoinFlex don't fix their issues.

If Coinflex eventually un-pause withdrawals and you gain access to your funds - how much money will you have made from CoinFlex due to being a promotor?

Did they pay you a monthly salaray as a promotor and you were paid on the CoinFlex platform but these funds are now stuck? Because when you keep saying you stand to make less than $0, that's a lot different to them having paid you $1,000,000 that is just currently unavailable and you seem to be kind of dodging the question Dan Bilzerian style.

Thank you.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 05:05 AM
I am glad I kept my crypto (what is left of it) in cold storage instead of lend it out. At last year's World Series, one person I spoke to thought I was crazy not getting 9% to lend out my crypto. Those places are highly capitalized, nothing to worry about, I was told...I knew it was too good to be true. Even another financial Youtuber that I highly respect was singing the praises of Voyager, which is in deep trouble.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 05:31 AM
How is Hellmuth's shilling for UB or that other failed crypto venture different from you here? I'm sure he did his "due dilligence" and talked to advisors as well. The only difference here is that he made a bunch of money from UB, and also probably got paid for the other stuff too before it went belly up. You may not have profited here, but the intent to profit by shilling something very speculative was there. If this would have happened 3 years down the line and you would have got 1m+ in payments from them, would you have returned that money to the userbase?

Like others have said, the real issue here is you promoting the company and having your userbase/subscribers buying into that.

When you talk so much trash throughout the years about people who were in a similar position to you, call them scumbags etc. you kind of set yourself up for the fallout when it happens to you.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 05:54 AM
I missed the whole 20% apy part.. I always fast forward when any poker player goes into shill mode.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote
07-02-2022 , 06:23 AM


Oof…Doug was sooo close here.

Sage advice from Lamb too lmao.

At the end of the day people need to be responsible for their own investment decisions. Doug wasn’t a fiduciary.

That said, I do think that Doug was pretty reckless with his audience. Perhaps in the emotion of this moment Doug is being overtly defensive, but he seems like a decent person and I think he’s gonna lose some sleep over the impact this has had on people that trusted him.

Also, if you’re still answering questions Doug: what, specifically, were the details of your compensation package from CoinFLEX? And did you have any money besides what they paid you on their platform?

Last edited by auralex14; 07-02-2022 at 06:32 AM.
Doug Polk CoinFlex Discussion Quote

      
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