Hear hear.

In response to frzn assets, I'd like to note that Doug is not disliked for his social awkwardness or for being dimwitted. There are plenty of poker players with those traits. It all starts with the angle shooting. His other character flaws just complete the package. The mockery is well deserved.

Fair enough...
Like I said he was affable enough to me at the Venetian tournament and did not angle shoot but that was just my experience with him. If he has a rep for angle shooting then that's a different story...

Poker is funny in that on any given tournament someone can come off a number of ways depending on how they are doing in the tourney etc. Just the nature of the game...

this just isnt true at all. The giant majority of the thread is aimed at his social awkwardness with a handful of angle shooting stories mixed in and its not even close.

That's what i thought. I don't know.. for some reason people like to have a whipping boy to beat up on..

People should read this book:

The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas

Its by Ursula K Leguin and deals with this issue exactly. Pretty good read...

Eh? It's been a while since I've read through it all, but this thread is loaded with angle shooting tales. If not for that, I seriously doubt this thread would exist.

It's not his social awkwardness. I don't even think the word socially awkward is a very good description of what he does.

It's the fact that he acts like he's this huge poker celebrity and tries to rub it in people's faces when he actually is just some random dude who won one not very big tournament once. He's like Phil Hellmuth except instead of 12 bracelets, he has one ring.

there are some angle shot stories, Im somewhat new to the forum and have read it recently. The thread is going super strong based on his website, his goofy remarks to people about him being on TV and silly ways he tries to feed his own ego. Read through it again, there are some angle shot stories in here but they are massively overwhelmed by just general tooly, insecure stories. as for the thread existing without the angle shot stories, the thread was already well into the awesome territory before the first angle shot story was even shared.

Noah - I see what you're saying but that is exactly social awkwardness, no? Ive mentioned it before in this thread, I know Doug personally and not a story in here surprises me. He is insanely insecure, is constantly looking for recognition from others and this fault overwhelms any common sense he has. I grew up playing sports with him and did this well into our 20's. Doug is the kind of guy people laugh at, we used to call him our wind up toy as you could get him to say hilariously insecure things with the most simple statements. That being said he is a good person, he treats his friends and family very well and is a great businessman and has made a bag of money in real estate.

You have to admit all his interviews are awkward as shhiiitttee. He takes like 5 minutes to answer a question that should take 30 seconds. The interview with the chick at the WPT tourney is painful to watch because he talks soooo effing slow.... so that's definitely evidence of some kind of interpersonal deficiency imho anyway...

That's all he needs... One Ring... to rule them all....

he is like this in person and its ****ing weird, when you're just chatting with him he blinks a ton, takes awhile before answering and anytime given a chance he will try to sneak some kind of self brag in.

So I dont derail the thread too much Ill share a couple toolish stories from before his poker era. Doug is a crappy tennis player, his serve has nothing on it and he cant put a lick of spin on it. Anytime he would serve to me I would be hitting a very aggressive return or going for a winner off of it, in poker terms this is a high variance play, sometimes you miss and when that happened Doug would always make a point of telling me and the people watching that it was the spin or pace of his serve that caused me to miss. Doug also immensely enjoyed spending time on court with players he was far superior to, Ive never seen a guy get more satisfaction out of kicking the crap out of a horrible player and in some cases women. If you ever get a chance to watch Doug compete in sports, grab a beer and do it, awesome comedy.

I think Doug deserves this thread but I also think most people know a guy like this in their real life, poor Doug just had the misfortune of winning that tournament and getting somewhat known in the poker world. Ive enjoyed reading the stories but there certainly is some amount of cyber bullying in here, its hard to deny that.

I think it stems from social awkwardness, but social awkwardness is much more general than this. For example, lots of people who are socially awkward are just quiet and maybe even overly polite.

Doug is a toolbox. That's the best way to describe him. The guy makes a habit out of walking up to a bunch of strangers and telling them that they've seen him on TV. Obv it's incredibly entertaining, but I don't think I'd like hanging out with him. Good for you that you do.

The angle shooting is just straight douchebaggery, of course.

frzn assets ruining this thread, or at least trying to.

This is not a thread for debate. This is a thread for explicit toolbaggery and nothing more.

If you don't have a story of Doug being a toolbox to share, there are a few hundred thousand other threads to muck up.

He's disrespecting this beautiful thread! Bring back QuadJacks high!

Toolbox is the perfect description, windup toy was our old one of him. During home poker games the contest we used to have was who could induce the most ridiculous self brag out of doug. The best one I remember was a friend suggested Doug would probably be a very good boxer if he had tried and of course Doug strongly agreed and without joking in the least stood up and started shadow boxing. Imagine a 12 year old, limp wristed girl throwing punches similar to how a cat might swat. Doug certainly pisses a lot of people off in real life. I doubt you're like this but he generally annoys other people who are insecure. Confident people dont really care if Doug has false illusions of himself, its mostly just hilarious to watch.

Yup, its bad and again it doesnt surprise me. Doug always had a habit of trying to change the score or call balls out that were in. My only argument to srsly was that the thread and the hate directed at him isnt mostly from the angle shooting because most of the thread is people making fun of his website, his interviews and the goofy things he says at the table to let people know he was on tv.

Hey King Fish....

STFU toolbag

the greatest thread on 2+2.

I'm not saying that's the main thing people talk about, but I do think it's the source of the animosity. The thread is fueled by the delusional antics, but the scumminess is the foundation. If you removed angle shooting from the equation, Doug Lee would be nothing special. There are tons of guys just like him.

If someone started a Hellmuth or FullFlush toolbox thread, it probably wouldn't go very far. But if one of them became known for shooting angles, well... I'm sure you can imagine.

lol. There are not tons of guys just like Doug Lee. I don't think anyone in my entire high school of 1,000 people was anywhere nearly as toolish. I'd be surprised if anyone in my whole college of 6,000 people was as toolish.

Of course, in the poker world, there are a few guys that come close. But Doug Lee is definitely a unique character.

I would say 50-70% of live pros shoot angles.
-Throwing in an oversized chop "accidentally"
-Calling/Shoving out of turn
-Asking for a count out of turn (thereby demonstrating interest in playing the pot)
-Making statements like "you doin't have to worry about me" in a multi-way pot
-Saying "Did you say call??" in an excited fashion when absolutely nothing was said to make it look like you have the nuts.
-Not putting your BB out and then fake almost folding your very strong hand until the dealer says "wait its your BB" then you sheepishly take your hand back and everyone thinks your hand is uber weak (wrks well in the #1 seat - can't see the 10 seat)
-Saying "I check" or checking out of turn when you have the nuts to appear weak and induce action out of early position hands once the dealer says "its not your turn yet."
-Hollywooding -(possbily angle shooting or just gamesmanship??)

Some of these are angles and some are gamesmanship

I know that when old live pros shoot these angles in tournies it makes me think they are scummy and possbily perverts...

There really isn't a very fine line at all. Angles are things that violate either the spirit or the letter or a rule.

Throwing oversized chips is not an angle; talking out of turn is not an angle, though it's rude; pretending to be weak when you're strong is obviously not an angle, including fake misunderstandings. Acting out of turn is just against the rules, and card rooms have pretty standard and harsh rules to make it difficult for people to benefit from it, so you're wrong that live pros do it much because it's pretty much always unprofitable.

If you think that dimwitted, arrogant, delusional sufferers of Dunning-Kruger syndrome are uncommon, I encourage you to go out and apply for jobs in big corporate offices. Meet lots of middle-management types. I think you'll find lots of personalties that remind you of Dougie.

What if Doug Lee is just leveling? Like Andy Kaufman and Tony Clifton? At home he's a normal likable guy but in the poker realm he's Doug Lee

i bet you 10:1 that doug lee is doug lee no matter what. always has been, always will be.

I think there are similar people to Doug but even without the angle shooting he is one of a kind. Srsly, read the first 200 posts of this thread, a few dozen hilarious stories of Doug telling people he was on tv, telling other well known pros they know each other from TV, odd blogs, odd website pics and weird boasting. All this was before any angle shooting stories.

There are certainly people who have some similar insecurity traits that Doug has but in my life I've never met anyone like hi
. He is a legend in the local squash community for his odd behavior and that is a world without angling and cheating.

Hollywooding clearly shouldn't be on this list. Other than that there is no way that 50-70% of live pros do things on this list. That is f insane.