Me and Adam W were playing PLO last night at the Bellagio. Durrrr showed up and ended up busting his roll. He then asked us for money to rebuy and confirmed he was broke and living off Loans cause of the Durrrr challenge.

This is a common misconception "poor" people have about "rich" people. Rich people value their dollar probably more than you do.

+1

Thanks to OP, fun read full of little morsels of truth.

essplain??

I do not know whether almost all professional poker players are going broke. Normally, more evidence than OP adduces is required to show such a thing.

That said, it would not surprise me in the least if this were the case. I think it is quite plausible and, if anything, the burden would be on the skeptics to show that poker players are solvent.

There are basically three main reasons I think it is quite possible that professional poker players may have substantial financial problems: (1) Changes in the environment; (2) the nature of the game; (3) past experience.

Lets look at these one by one:

(1) Changes in the environment:

The poker environment has dramatically changed in the past decade: it has gotten much tougher. There are three reasons for this.

First, the vast dissemination of knowledge over the internet. Not just books, but routinely available practice. Second, the UIGEA, making it much harder to get money online out of casual fish and increasing the risks and costs of online play for US players. Third, the recession, making fewer rich fish willing to waste money.

Given that the environment has changed to that extent, it would not be at all surprising if existing players, adapted to the old environment, failed to adapt quickly enough. These players would lose a lot of money based on their existing lifestyles, accommodating another era, and actually losing money (or making much less) in the games themselves. In this situation a lot of people go broke, in any field.

(2) The nature of the game.

Poker as normally played and analyzed requires players to care about one thing: EV. Variance is rarely discussed in depth, usually a footnote to existing texts. Neither is rake for that matter.

Thus, a typical text might well suggest betting all-in in a situation where a player stands to gain 1% on average. Repeated over many trials, with a huge bankroll, this makes sense. But the analysis suggests many people do these kinds of bets for a big part of their bankroll, when they will quickly go bankrupt.

Also, the very idea of betting, say $100,000 for a 1% win to me shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the value of capital in most cases. If someone has $100,000 to burn, there are surely many better - safer - invetsments to put it in. Most poker analysis just disregards things like taxes, safety of money, and so on.

The average person who bets $100K on a hand of poker for a 51% chance of winning has a particular idea of money, one which, carried over into other areas of life is likely to bankrupt him rather quickly. It is a philosophy which disregards the value of capital, the opportunity cost of capital, the tax situation, the legal risks, and the physical risks of gambling (in most cases, the Andy Beals of the world notwithstanding).

(3) Past experience.

Each of us knows of poker players, including very famous, successful ones, who seem unable to manage money. They bet on table games. They bet on sports. They do prop bets. They act in ways that indicate a lack of understanding of and appreciation for preservation of capital (as in point (2) above, this lack of appreciation is nearly a prerequisite for playing good poker).

Whether OP is correct or not that most pro poker players are in financial difficulties, I believe OP's hypothesis is eminently plausible. Whether it is true, I don't know, but I think it very well could be, and should be treated seriously.

"All the really talented guys are really wasting their lives, doing this instead of something else more productive. Because if they're really talented at this, they could be doing a lot of other stuff."

In short: 1,000,000 watts of intellectual brain power + 1,000,000's hours of time wasted grinding felt or virtual tables = zero net gain for society.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4txU...eature=channel
@ 14:35

I'm so sick of seeing "getting broke" when I click on NVG I want this thread to die.

Wow

I think this episode explains every single word I said in my opening post!

Thanks for reminding me about this great series.

I think Diego Cordovez says it right starting 18:30


Here's the link again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4txU...eature=channel

interesting post even though i disagree with it. you're basically criticizing people for following through with bankroll management (with the exception of the players you condemn for NOT following through with bankroll management) when it is common knowledge that it is IMPOSSIBLE to win all the time. You act like not wanting to put up 200K for a big cash game means the pro is broke? Maybe they're just under 50 buy ins and are rebuilding safely. As for pros who complain about they're luck sometimes, what does that prove? - that poker pros aren't exempt from being humans? Everyone would like to believe that pros have the perfect life and always emit 100% class, but really, everyone has bad days. I think if you hadn't won on your trip, another person could have written this article about you.

if the sites and casinos didnt rake so goddam much there wouldnt be so many broke poker players.

haha, i want it too

It is gambling :S

This thread has been going on so long and this is the first time I opened it... I was expecting some dope Photoshop or something by now WTF

I liked the post. I think way too many people aspire to be these great poker players but most of them are in situations I wouldn't want to be in.

On the surface it sounds great, being a professional poker player. After some experience playing a lot and noticing what goes on around you, you realize it sucks. Yeah, making 200k a year big ballin sounds great on the surface, but how often do you think this actually happens?

#1 You are always at risk. Therefore, you always need your money so you can't spend it like a normal person. If I wanted to go buy a 1,500 dollar computer today I can do it because I KNOW I get a paycheck next week. Can't go drop 60k cash on a car if you have 90k cash from poker, because you need it to play.

#2 Healthy personal relationships make you happy. The other crap is just that - crap. Money's nice, no doubt. Coming home and having your girl tell you she made you your favorite meal is nicer. (this is dependent on how well she cooks, obviously. lol).

#3 Spending 4 days playing cards and realizing you won 50 dollars is sickening. I've done it plenty of times, except for the winning 50 dollars part. It was more like losing 3k, but I've strangely felt worse when I broke even.

#4 Most people who hang out in card rooms are losers.

#5 Most poker players I've met are angry bitter people. Yell at dealers for no reason. complain about everything. Moan about how bad their luck is. Dude, stfu already jesus christ.



I constantly see people post here saying they want to be a professional poker player. I constantly see people post here saying they will turn 1k into 100k by end of year. I read these posts, I actually try to read the updates because I genuinely want to see people "make it". How many do? These threads constantly end with the player going busto. It's depressing.

Me and my friend play poker pretty constantly (he usually wins a bit or breaks even, I usually lose but whatever) and we've been seeing a kid who plays for a few days straight at a time. He comes over and tells us he's up 10k this week. Then he goes on and says he sleeps a few hours in his car and doesn't really shower. 2 days later he asks us to borrow 500 dollars? WTF? Yeah.. great life there, sleeping in your car and being up a phantom 10k.


I think it would be very interesting for everyone who posted in this thread bashing the OP to post exactly how much money they have won in the last year from poker. I think it would be comical. Think of how many balling poker players YOU KNOW. I can tell you how many I do. Not one. I can think of tons of people who actually work and are successful and have nice cars, nice houses, good investments, are interesting to talk to and have interesting hobbies. How many poker players do you know who can claim all that? Really, do you want to hang out with Johnny Chan? lol

Sure, Nananoko is kicking ass - God bless him. I hope he makes 3 billion. How many of you are him? None. There probably isn't 1 person in this entire thread who crushes and has big money buying whatever they like and doing whatever they want, except maybe Sklansky, and I'm only guessing that's becuase he actually writes books and other stuff.

Not a one.

And you guys want to be card players? One question - Why?

Great post!! I agree 100%

I have to say that you're not completely wrong, but you're not 100% right too.
There are around 7-8% of players that are actually winning players. Which is pretty good, would be even higher without rake, but...
Also real professionals, and yes, they do exist have really good BRM, which is usually more then 100BI.
You're right, that's why proffessional card players have "play money" on one side and "real money" on other. Let's say I'm playing NL100 and my bankroll is $10.000. That means that I'm having $10.000 to play poker. But that doesn't mean that's all the money I have. Let's say your paycheck is $3000 dollars, but the car you're going to buy is $60.000, how are you going to buy it with cash?

Most of players these days are "kids" 18-22 years old usually so most of them don't even know what money is and how to spend it wise. In your post you're telling us about gamblers which all goes bust. Poker is a skill game.

Oh, I have no doubt there are some true pros out there. Make good money and do well.

Like I said - How many do YOU know? I've met tons of poker players and I've never met one I'd trade places with. I don't live in vegas or whatever so I'll admit I don't have the higher end exposure, just to be honest.

All in all I'll take my 40 hour a week grind at work, a steady paycheck and a happy life.

i play 5/10 with dewey tomko at the local casino all the time. He seems like a 200 dollar bet is the end of the world

LOL

Huh?

I have never played PLO with durrr at B
we had or session in 2008 of nlhe online though

wow lol

I was at a craps table at the Bellagio the other day, where Phil Ivey had just dropped north of 8 figures, and when he finally left he turned to me and asked for cab fare. True story.

once luke schwartz told me he couldnt afford a sandwhich

This is a great post.

I especially loved point #5 because it really is true.

I went to the casino yesterday for the first time in about four months and everything you described in this portion of your post happened pretty much exactly how you described it.

Lots of douchebags, lots of guys at the table yelling at the dealer, and a guy next time who complained over and over again about how unlucky he is at cards and in life.

A++