Quote:
Originally Posted by CursedbyaGypsy
Hey,
Well you are partly right about a few things. But first of all, let me just tell you that I love poker. I love the thrill, I love sitting on the tables while mingling with other players, I love playing cards. I've been playing too long now, and I've had my ups and downs. I've won $55k in one day and lost it the following week. Just last week I won $4k and lost it the same day, and what I noticed is that I do have bankroll management problems and I thought I was a rare breed until I went to Vegas.
Maybe I was naive before I went in thinking that these players were absolutely glamorous and I was living in this dream that one day I could make it big in the poker world. In fact, I don't need the money. I'm from a very wealthy family and we've got lots of assets/businesses and the main reason I wanted to do well at poker is for the fame first (being a well known bracelet winner) and for the money second.
In fact, if I was chip leader on the final table of the Main Event and somebody offered to give me, say, 6th place money and the bracelet and I give him top prize, I'll probably take it! I don't know, maybe if I'm actually on the final table I wouldn't because that's the feeling I'm getting right now.
I actually left Vegas up a ton, and was happy with my win but wasn't happy with the state of gamblers. I thought I'd see something completely different. I've become a realist and it's quite obvious that most players are losing players. Side gambling or not, they just seem like they've got money issues. Some people are okay about it (Matusow, Bellande) some people hide it.
This isn't a farewell post. It's merely an observation and I thought I'd share it with you guys that's all.
I don't know why there's a lot of 'hate' on this forum. I was simply asking the question "don't you get the feeling?"
I actually want people to convince me otherwise because like I said I love poker, but from all the poker playing people I know, they end up in debt or just on the brink of it.
Thanks
Fair enough. And there are lots of players that lose--there is a theory in business that "everyone gets promoted to their level of incompetence." So, when I see or hear about players who are doing well then playing at $2,000-$4,000 NL or something, or playing bizarre poker variations in Vegas with million dollar stacks, I do raise an eyebrow. Maybe they think they can win more in those games... who knows, maybe those games are really juicy. But it just seems like, not the best idea to try to take on Bobby Baldwin and David Sklansky and some other guys who are totally under the radar, in a really expensive cash game--possibly in obscure poker variations where the actual odds aren't totally clear. Of course, if you are plus EV, then it is likely to be profitable, but there is a lot of variance, and all those players are extremely tough; it is also possible that they get backers at that level though, also. And if you are making $200K a night or whatever, it would be easy to lose sight of reality. You are literally playing at the nosebleed stakes and I'm sure it's hard to stay grounded. But I would say that, for sure, the players surviving in those games are not broke; they certainly have money and are making money. If they are just a slight winner in those games they are making decent money. Personally I would just play $50-$100 or something like that if I was at that level... I don't really get why it has to become two players, both all-in for $1M each, betting their flush draw against the other guys top pair. Maybe it is the challenge, the fame, or just like the adventure of shark diving off the coast of Australia or something. But I'm sure it's like the futures market: vast swings are possible.
And as far as the other players at tournaments or in the casinos, some of them are just ordinary players who won a tournament and got media promotion; that doesn't necessarily mean that they are master gamblers. Others might be really good players, both tournament and cash, but not be "winners" so to speak. They might "find" ways to lose, play endlessly, have mood swings or various issues, be on drugs, etc and just plain not now how to handle or hold onto money. One thing I've noticed in Vegas sometimes, is that many players seem to be on Ritalin or other stimulants that are usually prescribed for ADD and ADHD. There was a fantastic article in the New Yorker about the new wave of "smart drugs", including Ritalin which has been around for a while: it went on to say that it is like the new steroids, and that in many top schools a high percentage of the students take these drugs, as it allows them to study for many many hours effectively. An entire chapter of the story was about a pro-poker player, who makes good money playing tournaments, and takes these drugs, because it makes him happier, more alert, more stable and less prone to playing hands out of boredom or losing concentration. I've noticed in Vegas that some of the younger, preppy, I'm-here-from-college, online player wanna-be pro type guys seem to be on this stuff. Their pupils look dilated, and there are other signs. Obviously players will do whatever they can to win... but this kind of thing is worrisome. Some players are essentially burning the candle at both ends, in order to squeeze more productivity out of themselves at the poker table. Of course, every young hotshot must now be under incredible pressure to be brilliant, especially at the poker table, and to effortlessly make enough money to pay back all student loans on a nightly basis, all the while dressing like a Maui surf bum with a punk rock attitude. But there's always bound to be winners and losers. I think in the long run, taking those kind of drugs will affect people's serotonin metabolism or other hormonal factors which will make them either dependent on those drugs or have other weird effects.
This is all neither here nor there though: Poker is obviously a tough world, and there are obviously losers, but there are also obviously winners. Just go play a $5-$10 game in Vegas, and you are probably seeing a few pros who easily make a living just playing. And people who can handle the gambling, take money they made in poker and plow it into other businesses and get even more stable. Players like, I mean, I don't know people's finances or anything, but I'd imagine that players like Galfond and Ted Forrest let's say, make big money.
And it is weird to see your "heroes" and find out that they are mortal... but that doesn't mean they aren't awesome. I remember, a long time ago I had watched the instructional videos of an american martial arts expert, copied him and emulated him quite a bit. Then I had a chance to train with him on Sundays. The class was in the garage at his house, with 3 other students; the guy was so mundane it was shocking. The more I got to know him, the less he conformed to my expectation of "martial arts master." He worked at this shady telemarketing company during the week, and seemed on the one hand very ordinary and on the other almost somewhat criminal or anti-social.But he turned out to be a real friend and I learned some very interesting things from him, both about martial arts and about life. It's just like if you go to a NIN concert, or a NASCAR event, or a pro-wrestling match: Poker is the same, I think. People are willing to accept you on your own terms, people are cool, but they also expect you to give them the same freedom. They are cool and individualistic, for sure not perfect, but if you think about how willing they are to be friends and accept you, you would never want to say that they are losers or something.
Last edited by anilyzer; 10-18-2010 at 02:42 PM.