Sounds kinda like a Ponzi scheme. Anyone brought that up yet?

lol. so true.

And "borrowing" money that was not theirs is not criminal? Since when were they a bank? I am sure they NEVER thought it would come to this ---they are just that stupid not to see the writing on the wall. Blaming the DOJ for doing their job is just moronic.

GG...lol at anyone still supporting these scumbag animals.

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I can't stop laughing

Does anybody have a clear idea of the determination of the accounts to be seized? I can assume that the named accounts of individuals are the primary accounts through which they received payments from tilt and that the 'traceable' provision of the warrant allows for further seizures based upon transfers.

It's somewhat interesting to note that the entirety of the personal accounts are seized - thus indicating that there is a somewhat clear idea of the amount of individual liability they have but that there is certainly no guarantee that the accounts hold a figure close to what they would owe. In any case it's a severely long process moving forward because you have alot of trace work to do (figuring out how withdrawals and bank wires were conducted from these accounts) and then determining if those funds are still accessible/returnable. Like if X transferred $100k into another personal account and it's still there - then that's relatively simple. But if X wired $100k into some other business venture in which he doesn't have some type of controlling interest - that might be alot murkier and lengthy.

Disclosure - I am an attorney but don't have alot of familiarity with these types of issues. Just some raw speculation.

It may not have been successful from a DOJ point of view, but it sure looks successful to those who lost money.

This is where it gets ugly for Lederer and Fergy. When the Fed's start tracing the money it is likely money laundering and/or taxes become an issue. These guys will run an awesome jail house home game thou.

Or, hypothetically speaking, if X transferred "90%" of his money into African "charities". Hypothetically, of course.

I'm sorry but I just don't get it, where you guys get these skewed views from? FTP was not a bank, it wasn't run like a bank either and there were no regulations involved. Do you people have any idea of how many regulations banks are subject to and operate under? What the deuce? There is no comparison. Stop comparing Full Tilt Poker to a bank, it's just ridiculous!

The good news is this wont take at least 5 years to go through the courts and there will be plenty of money left at the end after the lawyers have been paid and the DOJ has taken their cut.......

They're likely in a foreign country that does not extradite to the U.S. wiping their ass with millions of dollars. Not sure how it could have been more successful on their end.

If it was run like a bank, were the rest of the funds federaly insured like the depositors insurance banks have. Im going all in without seeing my cards or any of the board to guess it was a big NO

P.S. Are there any lawyers in here who can tell me if the DOJ is going to consider slapping any RICO charges on the head's of FTP? Is it even a consideration?

I skimmed thru and didn't see if anyone answered...is the DOJ going to seize these funds to give them BACK to the players? or just keep it, saying it was money illegally earned, and thus theirs as a result?

yep, inevitably becoming house again, max buyng the commisary, doing loans, getting free threeways, deopsits on outside accounts

The days surely just got much, much more sad for this crew. No longer is it Bitar and this random payment processor, the crosshairs are clearly squared right on Mr. Lederer and Ferguson at this point as clear U.S citizens, who ran an illegal poker operation from the U.S, bringing lots of the stolen profits back to the U.S. Scarey stuff for sure.

no Rico isn't even a consideration, unless they find that the funds taken were used to finance other criminal activities. They were just used to line their own pockets, so no Rico

I agree somewhat with this. Its unfortunate we live in a pay to play society where existing money is allowed to dictate what politicians regulate and define as illegal or legal. I think most on here want to see poker legalized online, and this BS to stop.

I have not read Alderney's requirements, but even in the case that they did not require them to keep cash on hand equal to the amount of player deposit on hands (which if they did is outright fraud) the bank argument is fascimile at best. People lending money to banks through a savings account are entering a contract where they understand this underlying fact of holding an account. The Federal deposit insurance protects consumers from this, so consumers don't really even consider it anymore - but they did in the past hence bank runs. FullTilt had no right to use money that was basically held in escrow by them to fund operations, back phantom deposits, or pay distributions. You have to disclose the use of funds if you want to do something like this - banks do that.

Furthermore, FTP in fact did the contrary - it represented itself as a company that segregated the funds of players from operating funds. In numerous emails and threads FTP employees or others that represented FTP explicitly stated this. My guess is these employees did not make these representations by themselves. This is Fraud - plain and simple.

Wow, I cannot wait to see Chris Ferguson and Howard Lederer is jail - hope they suffer

If the DOJ seizes the funds, its up to american citizens and players to press the feds to give the money back to the ppl that lost their ftp balances.

AND DONT FORGET THE ROW PLAYERS!!

Maybe you didn't get a chance to read this thread.

They were required to keep 100% of player money in segregated accounts from what I understand.

Lederer I understand, but Ferguson?? I still can't believe this guy would go that low??? It sure sounds like these two are in for some serious trouble. A criminal complaint has to be forthcoming, doesn't it??

I did see answers to that either. I can tell you that the players have been manipulated to the the DOJ is helping them. They are only helping Caesars and Wynn set up their new online poker business free of competition. If money were going to be given to players from DOJ it would come only days before legislation is passed so that those same players could deposit on Wynn with that money.