http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1645089/

Watch this movie, guys. I highly recommend it.

You can follow the case and find the Docket Report here http://dockets.justia.com/docket/new...1:2011cv02564/

Obv not everything is available to view that has been submitted in the case

Clearly FT was run by a bunch of crooks and misappropriated player funds, but there is nothing we can do about that now. The bottom line is that myself and many others are out alot of money and we have to work out the best way for us to salvage what we can.

The way I see it $440 million of stolen money was paid out to the owners of over the last four year, $115 million was seized by the U.S. DOJ, another $42 million was seized from Daniel Tzvetkoff (not sure on these numbers, so correct me if I'm wrong). They could probably sell whatever assets they have left for a decent chunk as well. Even if a small fraction of this is recoverable, it would be a start. I think it is imperative that a trust is set up to serve the best interests of the players.

Personally I can't understand why the US DOJ should get $1 of my money or anyone else’s. What on earth did they ever do which could possibly make them entitled to it. Much of FT's business operations took place in Ireland and I'm sure their practices broke some laws over here as well. What is stopping the Irish government from suing FT and pocketing the proceeds? It's just as ridiculous a scenario in my opinion.

What struck me about the OP was that you never once mentioned FT's obligation to the ROW players. FT was an international organization and while its legality in the US was unclear it was never in doubt in most countries. So what's so special about the US that they should be first in the queue.

I don't mean to rant on but I am concerned that whatever money is left is going to be swallowed up by the DOJ.

OP, please do explain your affiiliation w/ FTP. You seem to think they are completely innocent in this and handled everything smoothly.

Full Tilt did not have the money on hand to represent player's accounts. This is a fact. Another fact is FTP used players money for enormous marketing campaigns and 440 mil in company payouts.

You also seem to totally neglect how horribly FTP handled things post BF.
1- Transparency. I really don't need to elaborate on how poor the communication was.
2- Keeping Bitar(felon) in charge. This is so selfish of him and the company and does nothing but keep FTP from paying players back and continuing as a trusted poker operator.
3- Not selling the company for initial offers (that would pay player's back). Matusow and Dwan have both stated that the company should have been sold, but greed got in the way. Matusow said they insisted the company was worth more than their investors' offers and their hard bargaining(GREED) has destroyed the brand's worth to a tiny fraction of what these crooks could have been paid. Did they actually think dicking around for a few months and not paying players wouldn't destroy the company's value?

The company was a mess and doomed even before the DOJ got involved. It was run by morons with no business sense. Greedy morons.

online poker itself was never illegal per se, of course sites that took american customers post uigea were operating in a legal grey area at best regarding the ability to make financial transactions.

the root cause of this situation imo is the uigea and the way the DOJ went about systematically weakening the poker sites that remained to serve americans. it's not surprising that after repeatedly seizing large sums from the sites and continually driving up operating costs in the american market in a manner that deliberately put companies under considerable distress, that a situation like this could occur.

i find it hard to believe they didn't make enough money during the companies history to overpay shareholders anywhere near $443 million, that they did continue to pay shareholders over $10 million a month since the middle of last year when their financial difficulties really set in according to the doj statement is quite regrettable.

hopefully at some point the information concerning how much ftp was actually making will be made available and the public can have a good understanding of how justified the payouts to shareholders were.

following this saga has left me with quite a bit of contempt for the way the DOJ has handled enforcing the uigea. that seems to be business as usual for them unfortunately.

saying that doesn't in any way absolve FTP for their conduct as they are first and foremost responsible for their predicament.

this reminds me "have 100% trust in ftp, will not withdraw one cent".

nobody will be withdrawing a cent

I'm not going to argue that no brainwashing took place in Germany since it did, but Hitler did justify wars simply for "living space" and that Germany should rule because they were the master race, hitler seriously believed this and that was his foreign policy lol. that's not the same as the war on terror, which was wrought by religious conviction for political ends, in other words a lie disguise the real reasons.

Congrats OP you went from TLDR to me reading all your worthless dribble just to realize you are probably someone with 300 bucks on FTP that you will never get.

FTP like all of online poker was not regulated and have zero oversight.

So.

Russ Hamilton stole millions and now plays golf in Vegas.

FTP paid people millions with money that didn't really exist. Then when they knew the end was near and the banks were being shut down they took deposits they knew they couldn't clear and let people play trying to get every last dime. Also with no intention of paying anyone.

The DOJ is not the villian here. You are for playing a site you knew was illegal to fund as a US citizen. So please go drink something other than Koolaide and come back when you can accept reality.

You do know people in the UK, Germany, myself in Australia and every other country with players bar the US is owed money?

$115m seized. $6m in the bank. Yet owe $310m ish. Yup. Those figures add up.

sadly they would if you add 450 million back to the company

2 Months ago, I agreed with you.

Please read up on civil forfeiture in the US. Law enforcement is abusing the 4th amendment constantly.

Unfortunately, it seems we are under moral scrutiny and those who pass judgement are using law enforcement to achieve their means. This same lot will lower their priority in time for their "constituents" to fill the void they created.

What is even more disgusting is contrasting this with the same scum criminals who are "in" so receive bailouts as not to fail from their greedy actions.

We have established that FT was corrupt. Russ Hamilton or whatever else you are talking about is irrelevant. What gives the DOJ the right to confiscate funds which they know full well rightly belongs to the players? (Funds which not only belong to US citizens but players from around the world)

Wouldnt of mattered. FTP would of kept paying out their dividends untill that $100m was gone.

You’re missing the point dude, there is **** all we can do about that now. The bottom line is some money can be salvaged from the owners, from sale of the assets and from funds which were confiscated pre Black Friday.

There is no way in the world you can argue that the DOJ is entitled to $1 of this money.

Hey, I dont disagree with your thoughts on the morals of the situation. Just being realistic though dude.

Gaming companies dont have many assets, so I doubt there is much there. I suspect all the money they obtain from the directors/owners will go to paying the legal bills and then the giant fine the DOJ requested. Players wont get anything imo.

Also creditors will be ahead of players in getting paid.

Could be wrong of course. But I highly doubt it.

entitled? They caught criminals with that money. That is how they fund their activities. It has nothing to do with justice or entitlement around here.

When stolen money is recovered it's generally given back to the rightful owner. Explain to me why the DOJ is the rightful owner? Saying that its ok because that is just how they fund their activities is ridiculous.

I agree with you. But that is how it is here.

http://www.isil.org/resources/lit/lo...f-america.html

They only good thing is that the DOJ actually used Ponzi Scheme. So that might bode well for players.

If they start talking criminal enterprise where online poker is illegal, you will not see that money.

It's NOT OK, but if the DOJ decides to get a court order to freeze or seize, they HAVE the power to do it. All you or me can do is bitch about it on some forum. They don't give a damn if you like it not. Golden rule: He with the gold makes the rules

$120m or something was also credited to US players that was not debited from their accounts, not stolen by ftp. terrible decison yes.
so now we are looking at what 250m missing that is not in ftps pockets at all. im probably missing some stuff, but doj sure knows how to put a good spin on it.

Original BF News From 4/15:

I would like to see Noah reply to the OP.

But I don't think the DoJ is still holding the 150M? Didn't they release it after BF? cuz they released it for stars as well.

Good post. Now. Proof, tits or GTFO