Do You Forgive Lederer and Ferguson? - Page 5 - Poker News

I just skimmed the OP there; I think that was pretty much all known and understood. I was more curious about someone citing Howard stealing specifically the sum of $20M. Maybe that was buried somewhere in there, I dunno.

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11-06-2023 , 07:07 PM

#103

sketchy1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoppedRainingMen

What an utterly moronic take

oh, well, that's like, your opinion man.

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11-09-2023 , 12:26 PM

#104

pokerfan655

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,440

Quote:

Originally Posted by agoo758

Just because "everyone would do it" (citation needed by the way), doesn't make them any less of a scumbag.

Also, there are plenty of people who don't live with "mommy and daddy", and don't commit mass financial fraud.

Where did they commit mass financial fraud? Do you even know what that is? Are they currently in jail? I'll wait.

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11-09-2023 , 01:02 PM

#105

editundo

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 390

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

Where did they commit mass financial fraud? Do you even know what that is? Are they currently in jail? I'll wait.

Their company was widely believed to be a ponzi scheme (in mainstream media), despite promising no returns and having a clearly profitable business model. This is because the owners ransacked the player deposits to such a degree that it seemed unbelievable to outsiders that it was a real business.

Yes they were never charged/convicted, but in this case it's inexplicable that they weren't charged, and it was known to be a corrupt landscape to begin with. Entertaining their innocence requires some mental gymnastics even despite the fact that they were never charged. Imagine if SBF was never charged... it should still be obvious he was a criminal.

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11-09-2023 , 08:37 PM

#106

m00sy

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 467

They were dumb, they took a risk to grow the business and Black Friday ****ed up their predictions. PokerStars paid out to keep the poker economy rolling so nobody was hurt. There’s far greater business mismanagement scandals and none of these ****ers did jail time.

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11-09-2023 , 09:54 PM

#107

agoo758

banned

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 373

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

Where did they commit mass financial fraud? Do you even know what that is? Are they currently in jail? I'll wait.

Spending money they didn't have? This is common knowledge, and easy to look up if you are asking in good faith (which you aren't)

You make a great point though, it's not like America is infamous for letting rich people getting away with white collar crimes or anything like that. If they didn't go to jail, it OBVIOUSLY means they are innocent.

What a great, well-informed, not at all insane take by you. You should keep talking.

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11-13-2023 , 12:42 PM

#108

pokerfan655

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,440

Quote:

Originally Posted by agoo758

You make a great point though, it's not like America is infamous for letting rich people getting away with white collar crimes or anything like that. If they didn't go to jail, it OBVIOUSLY means they are innocent.

What a great, well-informed, not at all insane take by you. You should keep talking.

I can tell I touched on a nerve - I'll stop to let you recover. Sorry little guy.

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11-13-2023 , 01:07 PM

#109

editundo

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 390

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

I can tell I touched on a nerve - I'll stop to let you recover. Sorry little guy.

You touched on the nerve of empathy for ignorant people.

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11-13-2023 , 06:55 PM

#110

Bobo Fett

Carpe Diem

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 57,022

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

I can tell I touched on a nerve - I'll stop to let you recover. Sorry little guy.

He's probably got past it in the four days since, so you can go ahead and reply to his points.

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11-13-2023 , 10:08 PM

#111

Wilbury Twist

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 6,229

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoppedRainingMen

Only simps forgive

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Originally Posted by sketchy1

Weak people continue to hold grudges

I wonder where I rank: I neither forgive them nor do I hold a grudge. Mostly, I don't really care anymore.

Spoiler:

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11-15-2023 , 10:02 PM

#112

agoo758

banned

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 373

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

I can tell I touched on a nerve - I'll stop to let you recover. Sorry little guy.

Pissing people off with dumb statements isn't the "win" you think it is bud.

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11-17-2023 , 05:08 PM

#113

jjwalker

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2023 Posts: 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderdogSaveMe

They basically ruined online poker in the US and the growth of poker in general for at least the last 12 years. Heaven knows where this sport would be right now without their corruption. It's a real shame.

Actually it helped the live poker community, and perhaps SAVED it, bu putting the players back into the live community.

I know it is near impossible for most to understand, but there are always advances from setbacks

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11-17-2023 , 09:12 PM

#114

Bageled

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 663

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punker

Absolutely not. Lederer's statement saying he "takes full responsibility" but plans to keep the money is absolutely asinine and makes me angry just reading it.

They both are STILL spending the money, no? They’re laughing, not on the way to the bank, they OWN the bank.

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11-18-2023 , 02:48 PM

#115

ScotchOnDaRocks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 7,200

Quote:

Originally Posted by agoo758

Pissing people off with dumb statements isn't the "win" you think it is bud.

Not in itself but as it stands it feels like he won. He asked for evidence of mass financial fraud. You replied with “they spent money they didn’t..common knowledge man.”

Well there are many many many corporations that could said about where we would not be considering them to be committing mass financial fraud. It needs to be taken further, had the government not stepped in where would the company be and why?

Work needs to be shown

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11-18-2023 , 04:37 PM

#116

Polarbear1955

adept

Join Date: May 2022 Posts: 999

You are not very bright. Either both sides need to prove their point or neither side needs to prove their point. You also fail to notice those claiming they took money from the company beyond the ability of the company to cover that theft and pay back the deposits have the facts of what happened when they were forced to do that rather than just continue to use the new money to pay the bills to prove their point while those defending the theft have no evidence on their side and need to deny that what actually happened matters,

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11-18-2023 , 06:07 PM

#117

ScotchOnDaRocks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 7,200

Wowser that’s one super run on sentence

One day working just fine
Government shut down to save everyone
Next day, to no one’s surprise it’s not fine

Show the work

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11-18-2023 , 08:03 PM

#118

BrickMMA

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 674

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks

Wowser that’s one super run on sentence

I tried to read it twice but just couldn't and moved on.

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11-27-2023 , 07:08 PM

#119

HurtLocker

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 798

"Lederer took some responsibility for what happened and Ferguson seemed to take none. It's been over 12 years since Full Tilt imploded. Do you forgive Lederer and Ferguson?"

I thought, especially after the 12, that Jesus does NOT need you to forgive him. BUT perhaps you need him to forgive you, no???

Truly, the world has gone upside down now.

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11-28-2023 , 04:29 PM

#120

kerr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,927

PolerGO has been uploading videos to YouTube of early to mid 2000s WSOP. Howard Lederer has had quite a bit of tv time. I thought I’d check his Hendon Mob page and was very surprised to see his last cash was in January 2011.

https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=147

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11-28-2023 , 05:35 PM

#121

ejames209

veteran

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 2,698

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrickMMA

Yeah, not sure where the "stole $20 million" comes from. I got all of my money back.

exactly. People need to think of what Howard and Chris did as a sort of long-term borrowing, if you will. Clearly the money was returned.

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11-29-2023 , 12:48 AM

#122

Frenbar

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,311

This thread reminds me that Ray Bitar dodged going to prison by convincing the judge that he was dying of heart failure. He then went on to drop the weight, marry a hot blonde and is still living the high life more than 10 years later.

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11-29-2023 , 06:34 AM

#123

BenjaFran

stranger

Join Date: Nov 2023 Posts: 8

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11-29-2023 , 06:45 AM

#124

MyrnaFTW

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 7,619

knew a friend of a friend who killed himself shortly after Black Friday ,with 95% of his net worth tied up on FT , he was being offered 20 cents on the dollar, and had immediate things he needed to pay off (plus a wedding soonish) that the 20% wouldnt cover.

so everytime i see fergunson or lederer in public it makes my blood boil, if he was a direct friend of mine , i would be 86'd from every casino they set foot in.

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12-02-2023 , 09:46 PM

#125

swagurrrr

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 206

I didnt like either of them before BF.....both were miserable knits with terrible personalities.

That said, no- I dont forgive them. Neither seem sorry for their practices, just getting caught.

Matasow, Eli, and many others would actually talk to chat- never heard a peep from those two though.

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