Do You Forgive Lederer and Ferguson? - Page 4 - Poker News

Howard and Chris took advantage of a situation that comes once in a lifetime - let's be honest 99% of you in here would do the same. Money rules the world - maybe not when you live at home with mommy and daddy but the real world is a different story.

Just because "everyone would do it" (citation needed by the way), doesn't make them any less of a scumbag.

Also, there are plenty of people who don't live with "mommy and daddy", and don't commit mass financial fraud.

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11-03-2023 , 09:16 PM

#77

agoo758

banned

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 373

If they showed true remorse and made an honest effort to make right the damage that they caused, then maybe, but "durr, it was a billion years ago, and a PR firm penned a canned apology for them" then, uh, no.

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11-04-2023 , 08:42 AM

#78

BrickMMA

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 658

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polarbear1955

Despite your lie most knew the emperor had no clothes as the amount being looted made clear it was at best a Ponzi scheme and the collapse would be much worse as more would have been looted if they were not stopped.

Technically it wasn't a Ponzi scheme. The business model and profits were legit, the owners were just taking way too much money out of the till when they absolutely shouldn't have been. That's not really a Ponzi scheme, although it was certainly illegal and unethical.

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11-04-2023 , 12:32 PM

#79

ULTRAAAA

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 85

Does anybody know exactly how much Lederer and Ferguson took from Full Tilt? Everyone just says they took a huge amount but does anyone know exactly how much that was?

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11-04-2023 , 01:16 PM

#80

Gzesh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 7,644

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRAAAA

Does anybody know exactly how much Lederer and Ferguson took from Full Tilt? Everyone just says they took a huge amount but does anyone know exactly how much that was?

Yes, aside from those two guys, the following people would know,if they ever cared, ....

1. USDOJ
2. The IRS
3. The former management at FTP
4. The former bankers for FTP, the former accountants for FTP
5. The former owners of PokerStars, and their due diligence team prior to the takeover of non-US accounts

among others.

Why would you care ?

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11-04-2023 , 01:27 PM

#81

ULTRAAAA

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gzesh

Because it is probably the biggest poker heist in history and I think everyone wants to know what they got away with especially since there was no punishment whatsoever. Same reason everyone wants to know how much Sam Bankman-Fried stole from FTX customers, which seems to be about $7Billion.

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11-04-2023 , 01:40 PM

#82

Gzesh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 7,644

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRAAAA

I doubt "everyone wants to know" either of those things.

However, I see, you want to live vicariously.

Google "ponzi" or "Madoff" or "Charles Keating" , if big numbers feed your seeming embezzlement fetish

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11-04-2023 , 02:29 PM

#83

ULTRAAAA

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gzesh

So you think Lederer, Ferguson and SBF should be able to rip off their customers and the public and the people they ripped off should have no right to know how much they took? Then move to a Communist country. This is America and people have the right to know.

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11-05-2023 , 02:30 AM

#84

Pileupthecoins

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 247

i had cents on ftp and they took my money. i will never forget.

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11-05-2023 , 08:45 AM

#85

Xenoblade

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 4,090

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRAAAA

are you ******ed? that’s obviously not at all what he’s implying, just that this isn’t important enough to him to give it that much attention, most people don’t have money to invest in life, they live paycheck to paycheck, do you think they give a crap if some random nerds have defrauded people of billions

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11-05-2023 , 01:00 PM

#86

ULTRAAAA

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenoblade

Of course they care especially the people who had their money locked up there for years. Its lack of caring that will allow things like this to keep happening

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11-05-2023 , 01:11 PM

#87

StoppedRainingMen

Player Hater of the Year

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 53,704

Quote:

Originally Posted by sketchy1

Weak people continue to hold grudges

What an utterly moronic take

Are these men my personal friends or family? Have they done anything at any point to provide a net positive to my life?

The idea that these thieves are owed forgiveness is why marks like you will stay marks

They showed contrition in the absolute loosest meaning of the word, gave nothing back that they stole, basically ‘apologized’ so they could show their faces in public at poker events and probably no other reason

They belong in prison. Not getting a hero’s welcome

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11-05-2023 , 02:36 PM

#88

BrickMMA

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 658

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRAAAA

There wasn't "no punishment whatsoever." Lederer, for example, had to forfeit $2.5 million.

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11-05-2023 , 03:38 PM

#89

uwannatrouble

banned

Join Date: Sep 2021 Posts: 104

Jesus and Howard seem cool. I don't know what happened to yall on black friday, but I am sure a lot more complications involved then them too bruh. Poker stars and other sites went to down too bruh.

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11-05-2023 , 03:44 PM

#90

jjwalker

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2023 Posts: 79

There really isn’t anything to “forgive,” whatever that means. They were making business decisions in order to create profit.

Pretty standard in business.

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11-05-2023 , 04:00 PM

#91

ULTRAAAA

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjwalker

There really isn’t anything to “forgive,” whatever that means. They were making business decisions in order to create profit.

Pretty standard in business.

They were making completely illegal business decisions by commingling player funds and taking those funds for themselves. This is not standard business. It is complete fraud.

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11-05-2023 , 04:04 PM

#92

rickroll

oddly catty

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 22,760

please stop engaging with the trolls everyone

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11-05-2023 , 07:15 PM

#93

UnderdogSaveMe

newbie

Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 22

They basically ruined online poker in the US and the growth of poker in general for at least the last 12 years. Heaven knows where this sport would be right now without their corruption. It's a real shame.

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11-05-2023 , 08:21 PM

#94

Xenoblade

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 4,090

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderdogSaveMe

wouldnt have changed much I think, all countries progressively passing new laws to keep the money inside their country was probably a lot worse for online poker overall

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11-06-2023 , 12:52 AM

#95

Gzesh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 7,644

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRAAAA

No, I do not. You failed reading comprehension perhaps ?

In response to your "clutch the pearls" posturing, i.r, "does anybody know".....

I was pointing out a list of folks who likely DO know ot have an educated idea of the figures you asked about ...... Go ask those folks.

File an FOIA request, maybe or get some documents from the courts ?

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11-06-2023 , 05:17 PM

#96

Polarbear1955

adept

Join Date: May 2022 Posts: 955

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrickMMA

There wasn't "no punishment whatsoever." Lederer, for example, had to forfeit $2.5 million.

If you steal $20 million + and have to give back $2.5 million you were not punished you just successfully stole $17.5 million. To be punished you need to forfeit more than you steal.

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11-06-2023 , 06:13 PM

#97

Fore

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRAAAA

1. You completely mischaracterized the position. It appears you did so intentionally. This is incredibly weak.

2. Please tell us where this right to know is enumerated.

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11-06-2023 , 06:17 PM

#98

Fore

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polarbear1955

If you steal $20 million + and have to give back $2.5 million you were not punished you just successfully stole $17.5 million. To be punished you need to forfeit more than you steal.

But if players got their money back, how much did he steal and from whom?

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11-06-2023 , 06:29 PM

#99

ULTRAAAA

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fore

1. You completely mischaracterized the position. It appears you did so intentionally. This is incredibly weak.

2. Please tell us where this right to know is enumerated.

Why are you defending these people who caused so much misery to so many?

Last edited by ULTRAAAA; 11-06-2023 at 06:50 PM. Reason: incorrect spelling