Not personally mad at them, because luckily, I realized something was off when I would deposit and the money wouldn't come out of my bank and traded off all my FTP$ shortly before BF. They kind of freerolled me, so, I guess I should like them?

But nah, not mad, also think they're both idiots who should've insisted on more oversight of this massive cash cow with a ton of player funds wrapped up in it. I guess they didn't care at the end because poker had passed both long by and they knew it was over for them as players, regardless

Lol at “poker had passed both long by and knew it was over for them as players”

Yeah it takes a genius to play poker, I’m sure they both could never adjust and do what an average stooge does now to become a winner

Ferguson iirc came back to WSOP one summer and won player of year even though people were yelling at him.

Lederer got accepted to Columbia, I’m sure he was smart enough to figure it out if he was so inclined.

I don't see why not. It happened 12 years ago. People in the USA spend less time in jail for murder, fraud, bank robbery and a myriad of other crimes. and have then been paroled. They have done their time and paid the price for their sins. Time to let it go.

What time did they do and what price did they pay? I'm not aware of anything. They just kind of vanished from the poker world for a few years.

Just a minor correction on Gzesh - they weren't crediting deposits for failed 7995 transactions; they were crediting deposits for echeck transactions that they had no processor to process.

By the time the funds were repaid they were almost meaningless to me. Fortunately I am a for profit player (at least occasionally) but have a full-time job that provides the bulk of my income. Some may not remember, but black Friday hit on the heels of the financial crisis, after most people's home equity had flipped to negative, stock market dropped from pre-financial crisis highs and took until 2012 to recover the value lost, etc.

The pain inflicted by not having the money until PS repaid was not at all made whole by the payment. The fact that Howard and Chris were living the high life using said player deposits during that time contributes to my ire.

How have either taken accountability for this other than generic "apologies" written by PR agencies and vetted by legal counsel. Give up the ill gotten gains and I will happily forgive and forget.

I miss FTP... had earned the black card (Promotional thing) from playing on there waaaay too much! No, I do not forgive them in the least!

Paid what price exactly? They're both FILTHY RICH from FTP.

Time passing doesn't mean they paid a price.

Luckily I only had a small amount of money on there at the time, but the answer is still hell no. Anyone saying yes, I don't understand at all as the average poker player continues to amaze me sometimes with their real life thought processes.

I am not saying you have to yell and belittle them in public, but forgiveness should be earned and these two scumbags haven't earned anything. They never really apologized or showed any contrition about what happened. They never suffered any real consequences as they continue to live a cushy lifestyle on backs of stealing money from a portion of the general public. Yeah, let's just forgive them because it happened a while ago at this point.

Since with no oversight power they got to keep their stolen money and honest oversight would lead to them getting a lot less why do you believe making more made them idiots?

No

I stand corrected. I thought they also were not bothering to batch and submit 7995 transactions as well because they were lacking processing for that deposit method , or a portion of their volume, as well.

FYI, they did ZERO time and paid ZERO price, as far as I know.

Howard is just a major white collar criminal who got away with his crimes. I forgive OP for making this thread tho

umm. ok

Apologies are nice but as the old saying goes "actions speak louder than words".

Supposedly these guys have millions stashed away. Now if they were to include some formidable actions with their apologies it might pave the way for their eventual return to the poker community. But I don't see their words alone as having a big effect.

For example I heard Chris Ferguson was interested in making movies before Black Friday hit. Now if word got out that Ferguson was putting millions into a poker movie project and that movie eventually got made, I think that action would be somewhat effective in bringing Ferguson back into the fold, especially if the movie was a hit.

Lederer who also allegedly has millions could do something like donate a large some of money (for example over a million) to the Vegas homeless community in the name of the poker community,,. Or maybe donate the money to some organization like Gambleholics Anonymous.

Here's how they could get a bit of respect back from me.

They are well connected with the Poker HOF people. Lead a campaign with their buddies and get Isai Scheinberg as the next inductee. After all, he's the one who went back and paid off Teddy KGB while they looked at each other and said "it's highway time". Come out and say "we lied and cheated and stole hundreds of millions and Isai is the guy who came out as the white knight for poker, the one who cared about poker players and the poker industry. He's done everything possible to repair the damage we did and we all owe him a debt of gratitude".

I think you guys are way off. If someone is guilty of a crime, they should tell the truth, accept responsibility, go to jail, pay their debt to society, pay restitution, etc. That would be the only path to forgiveness. Donating to charity, campaigning for a HOF inductee, etc. would all be frivolous.

The fact is the funds were not segregated, and they paid themselves exorbitant amount of money and then kept it. They are not children who didn't know any better and made an honest mistake. They were like the crypto scammers of today, except they squandered an actual business.

The spotlight is on the FTP and the poker industry but the individual I'll never forgive is Bill Frist, the Senator from Tennessee - what a snake.
Just before Congress adjourned for the 2006 elections, his little "midnight poison pill - UIGEA caused so much to be turned upside down.
I'm sure it was at the behest of Sheldon Adelson but that's what started it all. F that guy.

So true, if it wasn't for Frist the Boom would have continued!

I do not

I never got reimbursed for my Full Tilt points. I had earned enough points on the site to buy stuff worth ~$10,000.

This!!!!!!!!! More This!

Since Black Friday I have stepped into the Venetian only once. My wife's friend was getting married there and my wife insisted we go.

Sheldon Adelson is the primary reason online poker in the U.S. sucks so bad. Any poker player who goes to Venetian is supporting this.

Nothing has changed since Sheldon died. His wife still supports the same politicians.

I knew what Frist did with regards to UIGEA but decided to read about him today.

He's a Harvard educated surgeon who performed heart and lung transplants.

I can't even imagine going from that to being a scumbag politician.

I guess it shows you how much money and power there really is in politics especially if you're extremely intelligent and morally bankrupt.

Didn’t you troll enough during the Robbi/j4 incident? Give it a rest already.

Jesus was once punished by having a 666 hand.

Maybe that wasn't enough?

FT was ****ed up, a dream shattered. Don't really know how much Chris and Howard were to blame, apparently court didn't see them as criminals, that means something.

I had just maybe $20 on FT, never bothered to look what happened to it, Stars was my site of choice at that time, better palette of games, O8 etc. Had I lost substantial amounts I may have hated more.