oh my. Im guessing you are between 24-28 cuz you sound like my 26 year old daughter, her husband and all their millennial friends. so optimistic and hopeful that in the end the good and righteous will prevail

If this thread is about what could happen when constitutions are changed please wake me up in 30 years..

If this thread is about what could happen when laws are changed then someone please wake me up in 10 years.

If this thread is about what could happen now within the bounds of existing gaming laws and/or more importantly gaming regs, then lets talk.

We already established I know more about these things than you

None of these need to changed
You already introduced yourself to the concept of the new emerging model (ico's and hypbrid/serverless models).

It's already time to talk.

blockchain tech and associated things, I will give to you

Business along with general workings of the world at large ... not quite there. Lets just say I have a much larger sample size and better graph

OK agreed. Then why do you keep bringing up the 'Philosophy of Constitutional Law Class and Role of Society' class. MIght be something you studied in school, might be something you are interested in, but its barely relevant to discussion ITT.


back to my CoinPoker head assplode of two nights ago, Ive thought a bit more and could use some help sorting this all out.


Legacy sites make money one way.... rake. got it. easy.

CoinPoker can make money two ways.... rake plus manipulation of their coin value.


Since their coin can only be used on their site and they control supply, are they mostly (or totally ?) in control if its value, defined in terms of exchange rate one would receive when converting to $ or Bitc or whatever.

Thus their coin (your bankroll on their site) might be worth $100 or $1000 or $1 on any given day (extreme example) depending on how they manipulate supply.

what I am missing here?

As far as I see it, Coin Poker reserves 10% of the 500,000,000 CHP for themselves, and 75% will be on the market. I don't see how they can manipulate the market with freely traded coins?

The disadvantage of these ICO's is that so called whales can buy up a big chunk of the offered tokens, which offers them the opportunity to manipulate the market in their own advantage.

EDIT: You touch on an important point though, the fluctuations of fiat vs any cryptocurrency. It could very well be possible that, while you played a 6 hour tournament, the price of the cryptocurrency you are gaming with, drops 20% in value.
There are some solutions to this, but I don't see any of the whitepapers mentioning this, yet.

Lots of people in the 2000s in the US liked online poker, it didn't make the legal environment improve, in fact just the opposite. P2p poker doesn't change that. Also playing in dollars or euros is common on international sites. I suggest nooseknot reads this to get a basic background in the topic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_poker

Also if Nooseknot wants to talk about "Constitutional" countries (well a constitution can say Sharia law is supreme, I think he means what are called liberal democracies in the rest of the world where those words aren't associated so specifically with a particular political party), then plenty of those countries already have legal poker.

regarding reserve. I assume that means their "rake" is already 10% before the actual rake starts? spin n goes on stars start to look like pretty good deal

are their coins freely traded though? they can only be used in game or exchanged in a ewallet that decides to exchange them.

What of no credible exchanges decides its worth the hassle to exchange yet another of the plethora of new coins coming into market? then what?
yes so not only is the discussion on constitutional law not very relevant to thread, as you point out has no basis in real world events

Its fine though, millennials are so optimistic and unwilling to accept the status quo and I love them for that.

Lots of people in the 2000s in the US liked online poker, it didn't make the legal environment improve, in fact just the opposite. P2p poker doesn't change that.


I think p2p poker can change that because it takes away the legal control which was via the servers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_poker

Listen, I'm not trying to make a cut and dry "this tech ends law"...at this point I'm trying to get my foot in the door to open the dialogue. This is from your link:

By consitution, yes I mean to point to our democracies. I mean to point to the division of duities for the sepatioon of powers. That we (if we live under such governance) create government in order to ensure the greatest freedoms we can afford.

There is a limitation on our freedom in this regard, but its growing. It's very relevant because poker can change first. We notice through the history it was technology that created change and brought freedom, regardless of law, and then law evolves as our psychology changes.

Games are extremely relevant as well. A society weak at games and game theory will be a failing one.

Don't do this.

It's already standard for sites to deal with it (from lektor's link):

This tech makes it easy though and more trustworthy. There are also already coins pegged to USD, or other fiat...and each nation is already developing their own crypto fiat.

It's simply not an issue for player or sites.

Yup its the wild wild west. The difference here is the top site is not the one that the government handed a monopoly. The one that is the most accessible because of laws and payment processing restrictions. Rather, the top site is the one that the players most want to play on.

It's quite easy to exchange your bitcoin for any other coin or for fiat. Takes a few clicks just like poker. Some exchanges and coins have major liquidity, and this is growing daily. Some don't.

You are asking the right question, but people have already been doing this for years.

but I thought one of the motivations here was better site for players and lower rake.

an effective 10% rake (based on currency manipulation) before you even play a hand seems to be moving in the wrong direction ?

why would you lose equity on a conversion? where does the 10% come from?

Im still getting head wrapped around all this but was referring to this

I don't think it is how you put it, but I'm terrible at those specifics because they are uninteresting to me. I think thats for the crowd sale. So the business model keeps 10% of the finite coins they create, and different models will do different things and have different promises, and this can be locked and automated into smart contracts.

It's quite clear, that those that lock in their promises, in a technology in which the locks cannot be reversed, will be more trusted than those that make promises but don't utilize the tech.

This will reflect in the price of the token. So if they have a large amount set aside, then they can make provisions that ensure they cannot manipulate.

Some models have two layers of tokens and one that keeps the game currency stable with a peg etc.

I don't know where to write this, but coinpoker is claiming that M Josem is their head of security and at this point based on posts here and elsewhere by the coinpoker rep, I don't believe them.

Josem gave me a weird pm that made me question whether he is on the team, but he hasn't responded to my reply.

he's definitely on their website with full BIO along with rest of team.

The industry is full of scams that use peoples names without their knowing even when its blatant.

Doesn't this seem weird, he would associate with a company that has a rep that misappropriates poker history like this:

Full tilt poker didn't have a broken rng ;p

"As all game play results (hand history) will be placed on Blockchain" ...

Basically, this does not sound like a decentralized game at all, only a game where the off-chain game engine results are posted to the blockchain. Sort of like on running a game on any regular site, then putting Pokertracker onto the blockchain ?

I have not waded through the Whitepaper as yet, so I might be mistaken....

I did get the part about pegging the intial pre-sale to a fixed Eurovalue, pricing the offeror-retained portion at at almost 7,000 000 Euros value ... nice capital raise if it goes.

I'll stay tuned though.

Anyone ?

You are correct. It is their RNG which they are claiming is "decentralized". So the randomization is provably fair because each party gets a shuffle input of their own. So its kind of a disingenuous use of the word decentralized which is something I want to bring up with their head of security.

They also mention in their whitepaper:

But their rep readily admits they have not actually addressed this problem stated of back dooring a super user account. They have explicitly created a hole for one. The crowd sale is a week away, and I would dare say there isn't enough time for enough questions to be answered.

I don't like this.

yet he is not the 2nd, the 3rd, or the 4th person to feel that way based on your posts. is it a coincidence that so many people get the impression you are being rude??

maybe the problem is you. the way you talk/condescend to people on this forum.

jfc rich... plz go get your own containment thread... like on some other forum some forum very very far away 2+2

back to off topic of main topic regarding coin poker and Josem ?

interesting plot twist. guess coinpoker rep and josem gonna stay quiet. thats weird in and of itself.

So Josem IS head of security for this site https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...4&postcount=38

And this is interesting to me, from a site that is using the word "decentralized" which in the crypto world is a word that points to security. That centralization is a point of failure, and the whole curx of creating security is to avoid it.

But Josem is an outspoken proponent of centralization, especially in regard to poker:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=136
It would be interesting to know if he knows their marketing campaign is using the word decentralization in a misleading way as he is the head of the division the word is supposed to be a reference to.

The rep alluded to full tilt having an rng problem, and admitted they have a back door super user possibility, while claiming in their whitepaper they have addressed the super use problem. Is the head of security aware?

Wow, this is way way off-base. Bobo Fett is the kindest, gentlest, and most informative admin/mod on all of 2+2.

from their whitepaper... as least they think they are a decentralized .

Im guessing they would not get TheNooseProtocol ™ good housekeeping seal of decentralized approval?