OK USA is out. lets move forward and yes, regulatory bodies always have jurisdictional boundaries. even star fleet had to stop at the neutral zone.

For this discussion... please list countries where site (s) will offer games?

If you say it doesnt matter because its all anonymous then we are wasting each others time.

Nono, You never answered my question. Do you believe an authority (ie US law enforcement) can act OUTSIDE its jurisdiction? I need to know the nature of your thinking in this regard.

Absolutely not. We will not ignore law and jurisdiction and reject my explanations by straw-manning. I did NOT say this and I am NOT implying this.

I need to know if you understand jurisdiction before I can show there is none that pertains.

IANAL but if that were true one could share all kinds of otherwise illegal material (e.g. goat porn containing terrorist instructions manuals) using file sharing services and then when arrested say "Lol it was p2p you don't have jurisdiction."

FYI the Pokerspot site back end used a grand total of 5 SQL tables. If someone wants to pay me to do a poker site back end I can easily knock one up in 3-6 months. Nice looking UI is another matter of course.

Also you are confusing two separate things, e.g. you need to implement an RNG...
1) it can be done p2p or conventionally.
2) it can be done secretly and kept in house or be shared with future companies that might want it.

The answers to question 1) and question 2) are not related to each other.

Maybe it would help if you could explain it in more detail.

So are the start of the p2p equivalent of the Sunday Million, everyone sends their $215 dollars (or 0.03 BTC) somewhere. Where is somewhere?

At the end of the Sunday Million, someone sends the money to people based on the order people out. Who is someone?

If there are British players in the tournament then (e.g.) UKGC would say that someone somewhere is serving UK customers and they have jurisdiction.

So the person that illegally created the goat porn falls under the jurisdiction of the country he resides in. If he resides in Europe, does the US have jurisdiction? What will be seized?

A nice site with backend security and scaling issues removed makes creating a beautiful user experience doable with a small team. It is modulation of the design, the separation of the layers such that the completely of bridging the back with the front is removed. I can cite an ex poker stars programmer if we need and a lot of experience programming. I will also cite multiple teams working on different projects that are fresh out of comp sci degrees with cutting edge languages and design approaches. I've already been in contact with many such persons and groups.
It can be done near costlessly with p2p protocols and smart contracts. If done otherwise, it needs intensive security and certain transparency. It needs reg compliance and oversight. It gains the problem of jurisdiction which a p2p based solution does not have.

It's held on a p2p network in contract protocol

The protocol.

The protocol does the serving and handling the money.

I realize this isn't airtight yet (my argument is I claim, but I don't expect you to be convinced because we haven't covered the scope of your complaints), its a difficult paradigm to just walk up to and grasp so I have to hash it out with you like this. But you are asking perfectly helpful questions to do so.

Lets add any player from USA (their state run gaming commission NGCB, NJCCC, MGC, etc etc) , France, Spain Italy, Germany, on and on and on as adding to the problem you correctly identified for UK and UKGC.

PTLou, its the 3rd time I am asking if you believe that a law enforcement agency is able to enact powers outside its jurisdiction?

does thus protocol materialize from air?

who ever developed and offered it to be used in commercial real money marketplace, plus anyone that uses it to operate a site in countries described above will run into problem lektor clearly outlines above.

do you just want others to write or perfect your business plan?

is that the motivation you stated was "on your sleeve"

who are you. why do you care about all this stuff?

answered above.

Yes it is very easy to do, to create a project with no known authors using (ie) git/github. This is how bitcoin was born and how no one knows who the creator was, but also how there was great collaboration from around the world.

No you cannot enact jurisdiction, ie from the US, on collaborators to an open source communication protocol that are from non us jurisdiction. Bitcoin's beginning is anonymous but ethereum for example has known creators. They can't be called to US courts just because people are using the software for things the US deems illegal.


I'm not presenting a business. Its the philosophy for a protocol that is not proprietary. It's (to be) an open source project.

No no. I asked if you believe law enforcement can enact power OUTSIDE of its own jurisdiction. Because if you do we have to explain the basis for law enforcement agencies. If you agree that an agency cannot enact power beyond its own jurisdiction then I only have to show what is not withing an agency jurisdiction and that is easier.

Please clarify. It's really yes or no.

Nice trolling Nooseknot.

I've already done the research on the law in regard to such a protocol, the jurisdiction doesn't reach. It's just a matter of understanding how and why in relation to exactly what the protocol entails. It's VERY similar to bitcoin which NO ONE would have believed that there is no jurisdiction to prosecute the creators yet here we are a world currency.

That's why we have a world currency that cannot be shut down provides the ability to create a betting protocol that has the same properties of (legal) robustness.

I'm just calling for scrutiny of the concept so we can understand it and why it is legally robust/immune.

you continue to be so vague and elusive as to what exactly this is, its impossible to help you.

please define in 30 words or less.

google US govt prosecution and settlement with Calvin Ayre.

Is this accurate?

Its a difficult paradigm to describe.

A protocol is a communication method, in this case it allows for secure multiparty computations on inputs in which the output is conjecturally (and verifiable) correct but without the computation parties being able to see the inputs.

It's a math problem we've been working on for some decades now. We have the math theory but to make it relevant you need to have a "money" processing method that is legally robust.

ya. just one quick example of US govt going after non-US citizen outside of their jurisdiction. im not a lawyer, and all I know about this you just posted.

Im pretty clear on the definition of the word protocol.

was asking you to succinctly describe (<30 words) the protocol you are presenting ITT, not give me the Merriam Webster definition of the word.

if you cant describe then hate to say it, and not trying to be rude, but talking to you about it is like talking to a bowl of marshmallows.

That isn't how law works and its not true.


I've been clear. You are not clear on law. I have already traversed the relevant cases and I'm quite knowledgeable on how and why bitcoin is able to escape the jurisdiction of every constitutional based legal framework.

The simple explanation is you take the parts of the operations that government has jurisdiction over and you make them a p2p protocol. Thats the legal.

Cost wise, you take the components of the current legacy business/industry model that are the most costly and you arrange the solution such that a significant amount of the costs can be shared and the complexity of the rest of the design is reduced.

And you make the resulting solution into psedocode, and then translate into a language that fires p2p contracts. And then you release the protocol as a non-proprietary open source software that anyone can use or copy.

marshmallows are yummy

Then people will find you and scrutinize the code and be interested, and if the protocol DESIGN is good by nature, it will foster dialogue from others that want to scrutinize it, and others that will be able to understand that the ORIENTATION from which problem solver seeks to solve the problem with renders it either solvable, or not solvable.

You don't understand law.

You cited two examples yourself that perfectly support my claim.

agreed. Also I dont like most lawyers I meet.


ok fine I agree. there is no govt involved in your utopian psedudo code of a protocol world. its the wild wild west and anybody can do anything they want without reprise from any govt or regulatory body.

I am developing a pseudo coded protocol that enables the sale of crack cocaine. cuz you know, I can and they cant stop me. when people use my protocol to sell crack cocaine, they'll be fine cuz you know nobody has jurisdiction.

but the legal jurisdiction convo was just another sub topic in this endless game of whack a mole with you.

party on garth or whoever you are.

There can be government though. Some sites would choose to operate under kyc laws etc. But others wouldn't have to. It depends on your model. The legacy sites would have to migrate those compliances, the emerging ones can continue to evolve out from the base protocol such that no jurisdiction could or would want to make claims.

But there is a clear cost advantage to a the legacy style of launching versus launching off a shared protocol.

There is the same thing being developed for the dark markets, every time, for example, silk road has been shut down the servers were the basis for jurisdiction, evidence, and charges etc. The p2p protocol for the darkmarkets is in development and being tested etc.

It also removes jurisdiction like the US prosecuting foreign sellers. I mean you could still claim they have it, but the protocol allows for the dark markets to run, without the sellers fearing foreign law