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Berkey=dumbest guy in the room Berkey=dumbest guy in the room

09-09-2023 , 12:25 PM
He literally says a instinctual approach takes more intelligence a data driven approach. Pretty funny watching him trying to sound intelligent around a couple guys who are clearly smarter than he is.
hold on a sec

Last edited by dude45; 09-09-2023 at 12:33 PM.
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09-09-2023 , 12:34 PM
test
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09-09-2023 , 12:38 PM
test

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09-09-2023 , 12:47 PM
dude
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09-09-2023 , 12:47 PM
not sure whats going on video code is A8U-1aHpdzY
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09-09-2023 , 12:51 PM
oh and LC says its perfectly fine for coaches to give players bad info
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09-09-2023 , 01:37 PM
Your goal as a poker player shouldn't be to have other people think you're the smartest guy in the room if you're trying to win money.
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09-09-2023 , 02:10 PM
You know when he's probably the dumbest guy in the room (except maybe the dealer)-

When he plays nose bleeds with super successful businessmen who can afford to lose millions. Those guys are all smarter than him I'm sure and he gets to make piles.

I didn't hear what he said here, but (based on your wording) if he's basically saying successfully figuring things out for yourself in poker takes more intelligence than memorizing solver outputs then I agree with him. Most of the solver boys while well studied and tough to play against aren't even smart enough to realize what live poker is actually about. In fact a great deal of them think the fact they're better than rich business dudes at poker in a game they play and study every day means they're smarter than the rich business dudes when all it really means is they're not complete morons.

Sure if someone using solvers played someone using a 2010 strategy that he figured out back then that was super successful the solver boy would beat him. But invent a new game tomorrow without solvers and the 2010 strategy guys destroys most of the solver boys.
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09-09-2023 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23
You know when he's probably the dumbest guy in the room (except maybe the dealer)-

When he plays nose bleeds with super successful businessmen who can afford to lose millions. Those guys are all smarter than him I'm sure and he gets to make piles.

I didn't hear what he said here, but (based on your wording) if he's basically saying successfully figuring things out for yourself in poker takes more intelligence than memorizing solver outputs then I agree with him. Most of the solver boys while well studied and tough to play against aren't even smart enough to realize what live poker is actually about. In fact a great deal of them think the fact they're better than rich business dudes at poker in a game they play and study every day means they're smarter than the rich business dudes when all it really means is they're not complete morons.

Sure if someone using solvers played someone using a 2010 strategy that he figured out back then that was super successful the solver boy would beat him. But invent a new game tomorrow without solvers and the 2010 strategy guys destroys most of the solver boys.
When was the last time a "new" poker game was invented and gained traction ?

Lots of people playing badugi ?
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09-09-2023 , 02:58 PM
Considering where he started from I think Berkey is an exceptionally easy guy to root for and seems to have built a life for himself through poker that most people in this country would trade for in a heartbeat.

Is he overly earnest and too self righteous at times, misusing big words that just makes him sound like a moron? Sure. But more often than not he’s on the right side of history and seems to have a genuine interest in promoting the common good in poker.
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09-09-2023 , 03:22 PM
I heard he was filling his water bottle at the WSOP and nobody came up to talk to him
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09-09-2023 , 03:28 PM
IMHO, the guy that needed five posts and a title to get out his thesis statement and include a video probably shouldn't be calling others dumb.
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09-09-2023 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dude45
test

.
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09-09-2023 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dude45
oh and LC says its perfectly fine for coaches to give players bad info
You can frame it that way, but all the people in that conversation agree that as you continue to increase the amount of information the top players have, the tougher you make the games, and the more likely you are to drive away the types of players who make the game worth playing.

Framing it as "truth" instead of as "information" does not matter (except for winning hearts and minds, I suppose).

So if no one has access to analysis based on massive databases of specific opponents, or simulations, or HUDs, the average player will win more often, but that means (the theory goes) they will keep playing year after year, losing year after year. But occasionally having memorable winning sessions. And if those winning sessions become fewer and fewer and smaller and smaller, they will just stop showing up. Or so goes the common wisdom.

All three of those guys agree about all that. But one of them also runs a business selling data analysis, and so he tends to cast it as "truth" (using his the tools that he personally sells) versus chaos/lying/playing by feel (not using his product).
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09-09-2023 , 04:44 PM
He’s got enough people fooled to make money off them so give him that
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09-09-2023 , 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh
When was the last time a "new" poker game was invented and gained traction ?

Lots of people playing badugi ?
Yeah there are lots of people playing badugi.

And I bet they jam more often preflop with 12% equity and reverse implied odds in a 4 way pot then they do in Nlhe
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09-09-2023 , 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
IMHO, the guy that needed five posts and a title to get out his thesis statement and include a video probably shouldn't be calling others dumb.
The difference Is I don't try and pretend to be some type of pseudo intellectual
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09-09-2023 , 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmr
You can frame it that way, but all the people in that conversation agree that as you continue to increase the amount of information the top players have, the tougher you make the games, and the more likely you are to drive away the types of players who make the game worth playing.

Framing it as "truth" instead of as "information" does not matter (except for winning hearts and minds, I suppose).

So if no one has access to analysis based on massive databases of specific opponents, or simulations, or HUDs, the average player will win more often, but that means (the theory goes) they will keep playing year after year, losing year after year. But occasionally having memorable winning sessions. And if those winning sessions become fewer and fewer and smaller and smaller, they will just stop showing up. Or so goes the common wisdom.

All three of those guys agree about all that. But one of them also runs a business selling data analysis, and so he tends to cast it as "truth" (using his the tools that he personally sells) versus chaos/lying/playing by feel (not using his product).
Sure Nick may be biased but I agree with him that it isn't cool for coaches the lie to students. If you tell your student pop under folds in spot A and they're actually over folding then you're at best ignorant of the facts and at worst a malicious liar. Sure as more info and tools become available the best players will win more and more. That's because they will better utilize those tools and that's fine by me. It's that way in most things those with more talent and a better work ethic win
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09-09-2023 , 08:48 PM
A fifteen word response with two mistakes. Are you even trying to sound intelligent? Or just pseudo-intelligent?
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09-09-2023 , 09:06 PM
I cannot disclude this hypothesis.
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09-09-2023 , 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejames209
I heard he was filling his water bottle at the WSOP and nobody came up to talk to him
I had to give it a thumbs up.
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09-09-2023 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dude45
The difference Is I don't try and pretend to be some type of pseudo intellectual
why do you feel like he pretends to be some type of pseudo intellectual?
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09-10-2023 , 01:15 AM
I like Berkey, occasionally listen to his Only Friends pod, but you can't say he and Landon and pals don't turn up the snooty-ness/pseudo intellectual stuff

So in a tight configuration, knowing villain leans inelastic vs. a scenario where we know range advantage favors loose configuration... I think raising 72.55% of the time with a static range.
It's just trying soooo hard to sound smart etc
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09-10-2023 , 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmbxr9
I like Berkey, occasionally listen to his Only Friends pod, but you can't say he and Landon and pals don't turn up the snooty-ness/pseudo intellectual stuff

So in a tight configuration, knowing villain leans inelastic vs. a scenario where we know range advantage favors loose configuration... I think raising 72.55% of the time with a static range.
It's just trying soooo hard to sound smart etc
I like Berkey
Listening to Landon is painful.
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09-10-2023 , 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh
When was the last time a "new" poker game was invented and gained traction ?

Lots of people playing badugi ?
That still doesn't defend your viewpoint.


Figuring stuff out definitely takes more intelligence than regurgitating someone else's or a machine's solve.

What's next the guy with the calculator is better at math than someone who can multiply two 10 digit numbers in 3 seconds?
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