I created a poker protocol that leaves us jurisdictionless. Then I had an ex poker stars employee code it up

Oh gotcha. Hope it works, good luck!

What’s the boycott thread? I didn’t know there was one.

A boycott is game theoretically unstable. Those that lead them are nefarious players.

I have to make a lower level point here to make a higher level one so I will hope that there is a programmer here to argue and verify.

Cypher poker is the first object oriented programmed poker software.

Bitcoin introduced the concept of 'scarce objects'. Which cleverly takes care of the problem of copying digital items. There is a next evolution of scarce objects in which different parties or "players" can pass these objects and shuffle them, mask them, reveal them etc.

It HAS to be object orientated. Someone will say "Pokerstars et all ARE based on object orientated programming/code"

And then I will say "NO on those sites players do NOT pass the deck as an object to each other"

And then someone will say "Well then thats impossible"

Its not impossible. We have the code now. Its not a blockchain, its not a project where someone stands to profit. Its open source fully scarce object orientated poker.

https://nakamotoinstitute.org/scarce-objects/

So the digital chips are the scarce objects?

Hola, Chico, thanks for the update.

okay, I'll be glad to take a look this coming week. I may pm you for some side questions, such as "wtf is this or that?", so as not to present as too much the Unfrozen Cavemen Lawyer Facing New Technology.

perfect. but we want to ask you this philosophical question. and once you understand it...i will NEVER BE BANNED AGAIN.

if i create a software that is outside of us jurisdiction. will the us go after it out of spite?

ur the man. u understand me. and i have studied law. tell these mods not to ban me. and allow this.

What about the idea of a software implementation that allows anyone to connect and create their own poker rooms? Players sometimes talk (and) about the idea of lower or no rake, but here were thinking of an arrangement of a lower barrier to entry for poker room competitors based on a p2p software.

Part of the implementation means to make playing and providing offerings legal and censorship resistant through the protocol design.

The software is a communication protocol that takes care of the security of the shuffling/dealing, gameflow, and payouts/chips.

It doesn't provide the external security solutions, it doesn't seek to solve that, it relinquish that role to 3rd providers like traditional online poker. Here I present a prototype by Patrick Bay based on this concept. Its not for the players to test tho, its for a higher level dialogue about the philosophy of the implementation.

What is needed is scrutiny by the community here to understand/vet/judge whether or not its a crypto scam: https://github.com/monicanagent/cypherpoker.js

It sounds interesting but hasnt cypher poker been out years? I thought that the developer stopped working on it years ago

He finished his role and left it for the players. He provided the blueprints for the implementation. I wasn't strong enough to read the code and understand if he did what I envisioned until recently. In that context I believe the project/code would stand up to proper scrutiny. I am able to verify for myself he did what I believe is the way forward (others with technical capability/knowledge could weight in since the codebase exists.

The code needs evolution and thus interest from a specific class. Also the existence of nostr as a p2p message routing network provides an infrastructure for cypher poker to port to.

But i don't know if the community has ever contemplated the existence of such a software, so we need to start out hypothetically in that you anyone could spin up their own censorship resistant poker site...

I think its probably just an unintuitive paradigm for players. I don't think its been asked before or proposed. If there was an software you could spin up that allowed YOU to immedietly offered games of your custom choice, then, given you still have to compete and pay the "external" (ie what cypher poker doesn't provide) related costs to be SUCCESSEFUL as a poker site (ie policing collusion and advertising/marketing) THEN how much rake would you charge and how would you structure it?

Keep in mind there is some intrinsic or comparable cost savings. No servers, no legal costs, most of the 'poker engine' is accounted for.

What would be the influence on poker games (and card games and games in general?) if players represented their own sites and choices for game structures, deck compositions, rules etc.

Its a little bit out there to think about, but it gives an idea of what the software is. I don't think its ever been implemented. All other proposals, projects, sites have a proprietary nature to them. That axiom of a 3rd party benefiting precludes many of the solutions that a p2p implementation provides.

I think there could be an interesting dialogue open over this, it will just take some times for relevant knowledgeable players to understand the proposal.

I want to ask Gzesh if cypherpoker is jurisdictionally complaint US wise

Sorry for the spam I'm expecting Gzesh might answer here as I was asked to clarify:

Cypherpoker is not a proprietary based offering. I don't believe such a thing has been proposed before. So its a paradigm to understand/discuss a little i think. Other than that there is only code to vet. The rest of it is how it would be used and whether or not there jurisdictional for US law to go after it.

Had a bit of a look at it, as I had a similar idea a while ago myself. It's a proof of concept and not practical so far imo, as you need a smart contract operation (i.e. a blockchain block mined) for *every single* hand as you can see in this video at 3:38:



This should be mitigatable though, I'm pretty sure you can minimize block chain interaction to events like a player leaving or entering a table.

I think the biggest obstacle is that Crypto is still not mainstream enough; like for paying everyday stuff like your Pizza.

****ing love it !

Virtue Poker is a scam. This claim here is a lie:



Virtue Poker is the third party. Thats obvious. The whole model is a lie and a scam and they threw money at phil ivey which drowns out someone like me who can easily point out its security flaws.

It shouldn't have been allowed to advertise on 2p2.

Cypherpoker isn't a 3rd party. Its open source software, with a special design/implementation.

Thats some great intuition. I hadn't met Patrick by this time or just barely. I was looking for a project that was doing things they way that I extrapolated from Ideal Money. Patrick's notably stood out as not having a proprietary nature. But he was missing an insight that I passed to him. He wrote a blog about it striking him in the middle of the night what I was saying ;p

So the first version/prototype was in action script and people working on similar projects didn't understand the choice, cause it doesn't really matter....but he upgraded to javascript and then baked my insight into the design: https://github.com/monicanagent/cypherpoker.js

I figured out how to make videos pretty decent so over the next work or so I'll make a primer, so I can find like minded interested players that have a little bit of code knowledge etc. But the primer will help players understand what I'm going to present, its quite a paradigm shift.

(nice job thx Morphismus keep ur bolded statement in mind, I'll end up showing you how correct your are.)

I'm just finishing up the outline for my presentation of cypherpoker. Trying to have it for the weekend.

Its a protocol. We want to ask gzesh about the jurisdiction etc.

Jurisdiction over who, what activity, from where and directed toward where ?

Any analysis of "jurisdiction" over persons, things or activities will be pretty fact specific. There will be no simple yet general answer, as different things may involve different jurisdictions in the general sense.

The DOJ video you imbedded is careful to tie everything to the US, at least it doesn't attempt to address activities outside a direct US connection.

None of this is legal advice and is not intended to be read as such.

I might fix up the video but it does its job...

There is a lot to do that is behind the scenes. But its worth opening a dialogue on the subject here atm....



Everyone doesn't need to watch or understand this, but some will. The biggest thing that needs to happen first is to have the mods and propriety of the forum understand and verify that the project has no proprietary nature to it. It should be allowed to be discussed without needing to go thru advertising channels of 2p2 etc.

I understand its a vague question without presenting the content. Cypherpoker is a paradigm shift so its not easy to ask about without presenting it first..

cheers.

Bitcoin was used to pay for a pizza in the first ever known commercial transaction with the currency.

Decentralized poker sounds bad bad bad. Seems to me like what that cowboy kid went through in the original Willy Wonka. Got broken up into bits and pieces, only to get put back together again on the tv screen in much tinier form. So the Oompa loompa lesson is be careful what you wish for boys and girls.

Count me out!!

I don't think you are addressing the proposal/project.

This is the first time there has been an non-proprietary based platform.

I realize this subject isn't for everyone to put energy to, but someone needs to watch my video and respond to the concept. Its already coded. Its not ready for the general player to test. But the implementation so far is an mvp for devs.

This is a novel poker site project. I want people to challenge these claims