Daniel Negreanu's very own containment thread. All things Danny go here - Page 99 - Poker News

I assume it's been discussed but, should we have a different regard for the tournament success of those who are sponsored vs those who aren't? No less skill is required if you're sponsored but if that sponsorship means you don't put up your own entry fee you will probably enter more tournaments.

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02-14-2019 , 09:37 AM

#2452

answer20

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There is a point to suggesting that a Player who is 'free rolling' tournament entries has less mental baggage which may allow them to 'play poker' while not worrying about the return ... But you still have to cash, and FT .. and win on a consistent basis to continue to have those sponsorship dollars rolling in. To add even more twist to the concept .. What about Players who are backed and may have 'added' mental pressure to produce and cover their make-up?

From a quick glance at Twitter it appears DNegs may only play in one of the events this week at Aria .. that being the mixed game tournament. You could twist that any way you want to ... GL

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02-14-2019 , 09:54 AM

#2453

borg23

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Quote:

Originally Posted by synth_floyd

Is it an angle though? He's underselling his hand. Tony G did the same to Hellmuth on The Big Game:

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Originally Posted by 2pairsof2s

Nobody likes an angle-shooter. But there is a big gap between most angle shooting and what we would consider cheating.

IMO even something like Alec Torrelli hiding the big chips and inducing a noob to go all in does not quite meet the criteria for cheating, although it comes close. These moves by DN, while sleazy, could hardly be considered cheats.

What toerreli did is 100 percent cheating

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02-14-2019 , 10:17 AM

#2454

Defarse

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Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 895

Torrelli - cheating

Dnegs and TG - angle shooting

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02-14-2019 , 02:34 PM

#2455

SrslySirius

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Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,357

Quote:

Originally Posted by answer20

But you still have to cash, and FT .. and win on a consistent basis to continue to have those sponsorship dollars rolling in.

You absolutely do not have to do any of that. Most of the pros on PokerStars' roster haven't for the last several years.

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02-14-2019 , 09:35 PM

#2456

fishfood69er

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,702

Quote:

Originally Posted by SrslySirius

You absolutely do not have to do any of that. Most of the pros on PokerStars' roster haven't for the last several years.

tourneys are obv. the " scratch tickets" of the poker world. people who have won tournaments are in one big circle jerk. there are too many spots in poker where you have to go broke in a hand, its seems painfully obvious to me that it only takes run good to be a tourney pro and if you ran good during the boom then you can be a tourney pro for life. .

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02-14-2019 , 10:16 PM

#2457

borg23

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Defarse

Torrelli - cheating

Dnegs and TG - angle shooting

hiding big chips is actually against the rules, what dn did isn't.
i don't like either person.

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02-14-2019 , 10:45 PM

#2458

Scott7x

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Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,186

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jigsaw

Surprised i've never seen this one. I wasn't totally sure what to think about the AK v KJ hand vs Silverman, but after seeing this its pretty clear he was angling both times. You don't accidentally pull this **** twice.

Makes me wonder what he's gotten away with off camera.

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02-15-2019 , 07:08 AM

#2459

Defarse

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Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 895

Quote:

Originally Posted by borg23

hiding big chips is actually against the rules, what dn did isn't.
i don't like either person.

So, like I said then? Torrelli cheating and Dnegs was shooting an angle?

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02-15-2019 , 01:01 PM

#2460

Bobo Fett

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 56,895

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott7x

Is this actually an angle, though? Sure, it's a string raise, but it struck me as nothing more than showboating. It would be one thing if he put the one stack in while looking for a reaction from Deeb, but he's actually looking down/away while he puts both stacks in - I don't see how this benefits him at all, or in other words, how it's an angle. Unless I don't understand what the benefits of a string bet are.

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02-15-2019 , 01:30 PM

#2461

CRUDEFINDER

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Definitely100%NHG

Are you talking about DNegs "cheating past" or Bonomo's because I've never heard of any actual cheating scandal involving DN.

If it's a DN "cheating past" a link to the story would be appreciated.

Sorry. I was speaking about Justin.

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02-15-2019 , 02:31 PM

#2462

Scott7x

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Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,186

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

Holy ****, that’s Shaun Deeb? I didn’t even recognize him lol.

I see what you mean, as I’m not sure what DNegs gained by doing that.
I still think it’s sietchy tho. When the floorman came over, you can see Daniel pause for a couple seconds to think how he wants to word it.

Maybe he did actually try to limp / raise legitimately, but got caught up in trying to be a goofy Tv personality, and worded it wrong. But lying to the floorman about what happened is still a angle in my book. Not the worst angle but he should have been honest.

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02-15-2019 , 02:35 PM

#2463

Scott7x

adept

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,186

I guess what he gained was:

He thought limp/re-raising was higher EV than limp calling.
He put out a string raise (probably accidentally), which is universally ruled as a call.
When dnegs realized what he said actually isn’t binding, he intentionally changed the wording to get the result he wanted.

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02-15-2019 , 02:49 PM

#2464

Scott7x

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Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,186

Also he did get some information out of this. If Deeb had a very strong hand, he certainly wouldn’t have reacted the way he did, he would have been inviting the reraise. Daniel can now range him more narrowly for the rest of the hand. (Similar to how Torelli was able to gain information from that kid ‘cleetus’ reaction to his angle)

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02-15-2019 , 02:50 PM

#2465

Defarse

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott7x

Bingo.

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02-15-2019 , 04:38 PM

#2466

CRUDEFINDER

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Defarse

Bingo.

And DNeg flat out lied to the floor about what he said like everyone here is getting on Torellifor “lying” about where the chip was.

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02-15-2019 , 07:05 PM

#2467

SimpleRick

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Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 4,660

"I'm gonna pound you back a little more" or "I'm gonna pound it up a little more". The video is deceitful in the thumbnail. Daniel does say "a little more" at the end of "I'm gonna pound you back" then changes it slightly when the floor comes over. Could be intentional or he doesn't remember the exact wording, either way it seems the same to me. Pound you back a little more or pound it up a little more sounds like a raise either way.

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02-15-2019 , 07:29 PM

#2468

Scott7x

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Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,186

would be helpful to see the rest of the video, but there is no implication of a raise in the statement, "im gonna pound you back a little more".
This could be interpreted a few different ways other than raise, one being, "I call and am going to out play you post flop" or something along those lines. When you change it to "pound it UP", this implies a raise the way i see it.

I dont think if Daniel said, Im gonna pound you back a little more, and just called, people would say, no that is a raise.

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02-15-2019 , 07:31 PM

#2469

Scott7x

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Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,186

Adding 'a little more' does make it more of a grey area then if he didn't say that. But that could be intentional, anglers live in the grey area. That's why its called angling not cheating.

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02-15-2019 , 07:41 PM

#2470

Defarse

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Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 895

I think the bigger news is how skinny Shaun Deeb was.

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02-15-2019 , 08:08 PM

#2471

synth_floyd

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Dnegs didn't angle in that hand. He unintentionally did a string raise. It's clear his intention was to raise but he did it in 2 motions, which constituted a call. And I think if Deeb didn't call him out on it, it would've stayed as a raise as the dealer initially interpreted it as a raise. He also lied to the floor about what he said but lying to the floor is only incidental to what happened.

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02-16-2019 , 12:00 AM

#2472

DCJ001

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Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,843

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimpleRick

The rules state that a player's actions must be clear, and that, when a two-motion raise is done, it must be preceded by saying "Raise."

The quotation marks mean that the included word(s) must be stated verbatim.

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02-18-2019 , 03:35 PM

#2473

CRUDEFINDER

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertCat

What’s to check? Anyone who knows James Woods believes it.

No, you're wrong.

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02-18-2019 , 11:56 PM

#2474

jjjou812

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Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,595

So the best evidence you have of angle shooting by dnegs is 1) the dude who shoves AI complaining that dnegs misrepresented he mis-clicked an 11x raise with ak and 2) a string bet where he did not have photographic recall of his "pound you back" phrasing. Well done.