As I explained, he had a little over a pot sized bet left on a monochrome board. I am not sure if his play is correct, but it isn't that terrible. He is getting big pot odds to get it in rather than check/fold. He isn't a favorite versus UTG's range, but it is reasonable to get it in due to the chips already in the pot.

You can't generalize it at all. The fact that he had 1.2xpot is really key. In general, if you were deep, it wouldn't be a good idea to donk bet big with 2nd pair into an early position raiser, but every situation is different.

As I explained, his preflop play in all 5 of those bust out hands you mentioned is extremely standard, There is literally almost no other reasonable way to play those hands preflop. It seems like you understand how to play poker in general, but don't understand short stacked tournament play at all.

I was watching some poker night in America episode yesterday and negreanu was talking about how donk bets used to be called weak leads...

It’s just kinda funny he uses the words and seemingly know what the words mean yet he still donk jams. It’s kind of like how he used to call out villains hand and then still call.

Maybe Daniel is seeking affirmation or something... only way to make sense of some of his plays.

This isn’t professional poker being played on his streams. He’s completely distracted by chat and wife and food. He’s completely unprofessional imo.

Cue the you can’t be all loosey goosey...

I could understand if you said short stack spr of 1 you have to go w middle pair...

But justifying a donk jam in that spot seems bad

There is also the issue of the monochrome board. In general, it is often good to donk jam from the BB with an SPR of 1, as you usually want folds. It is kind of obvious that you often don't want to check and let the raiser jam, bet small or check. Just automatically donk jamming anything as in Fossilman's stop and go is obviously bad, and only worked against overly tight play 15 years ago. The fact that it is called a donk bet is irrelevant and doesn't make the play bad. In this case, he almost never gets any hand to fold incorrectly. It may not be the right play, but it is a subtle issue. It isn't a huge mistake if it is a mistake.

Analysing it on a really basic level he just folds out all worse hands except nut fds (many of which he’s flipping against) and gets called by all better ones

So I guess the calculation is, how much justification is there in ‘protecting his hand’ (which seems to be what he’s doing) vs the opponent’s range.

Given that the opponent’s range is going to be very strong ,maybe not so much justification

Yeh, I agree it probably isn't the best play. However, it is a fairly subtle issue, and not reason to conclude that Dnegs is a donk who loses at poker but makes money from endorsements.

I guess we’ll just have to disagree it’s called a donk bc that’s who make these plays... ya there might be exceptions..

But on the most basic level by donk jamming you allow villain to play perfectly against you by calling when ahead or getting proper odds and calling and then folding when behind say 77 no spade or AJ no spades that might have jammed w little equity now fold out.

It’s simple basic strategy not to donk lead. It doesn’t have to make you a donk but looks like a duck smells like a duck etc.

Deuce, as we all know, in poker the context is everything, so sometimes playing something as speculative as 9 10 suited against an early raise may possibly be ok, though I would never play it. But in this particular case there was a lot of background, ie Negreanu had been streaming for a month, so opponents would know how he plays, ie he has very little respect for early raisers, tries to force them off hands, so they can trap him by playing strong hands passively, knowing that he will do their betting for them.

If he had been more alert during the series he would have seen this pattern, and realised it would mean players would be paying a very tight early position range, one that would be strong enough to call his all ins, so it would be better for him to try more to check down and hope his hand was strong enough to win, rather than going all in with pocket 8s or pocket 2s and hoping he will win a flip against a high card Ace. So basically, in this circumstance there is basically no way 9 10 suited would be ahead of the guy raising in early position, who in this hand had pocket KK, so a fold would have been a better option.

https://youtu.be/h9x7ouJbpjk?t=6590 is the hand in question, last hand on the stream, in the vid called 2020 WSOP Online $10,000 SUPER MILLION$ - Final 2020 WSOP Stream

AJ no spades has 10 outs against T9s no spades 2nd pair, so you actually want it to fold. You want to donk jam draws and the other player doesn't know if you have a draw. I agree that is that case jamming is probably not optimal.

I don't agree that donk jams are bad in general. There are also times when donk leading deep can be good, particularly when people know standard approaches.

I don't think you can look at a play and say, Dnegs made a donk jam, therefore he is a donk, therefore he is fraud, etc.

You’re right.. he’s not a donk bc of one donk lead. But I do think his general play isn’t that impressive.

I like ginge poker and courdieb and these new age streamer crushers...

Daniels just past his prime. I still can’t decide whether or not to root for him.

There are reasons to donk shove sometimes with an SPR of like 1. It is a situation when it can be better to act first and take initiative.

I am not sure the point about donk leads being bad in general. It depends on board texture and so on.

I don't know Dnegs is really still a top MTT player. His play is of course very old school now. He also has his own style, betting small preflop and on the flop etc., and calling a lot: small ball.

However, I give you some credit for still having a big sponsorship deal, playing SHRs, being runner up WSOP POY etc. At least it is not all kids trying to play like computers. Dnegs has personality, which is partly why he is valuable to GG.

As Jay demonstrates Dnegs plays a good, somewhat aggressive, short stack game. The issue is more whether he can win consistently at high stacks tournaments playing his unique style designed to keep pots small, without much influence of GTO on his game.

imo no one in the world has a long-term profitable edge in 5 or 10k on up mtts...this isn't 2003 when 80 percent of the field had no clue whatsoever...the regular Joes in my neighborhood game play about as well dnegs today and analyze the game at about the same level..

In today's DAT Poker Podcast (10/01/20), Daniel claims he never defended PokerStar's decision to stiff the SNE players.

Starting at 27:42 into the podcast:

"I spoke out against it for months. I never, never defended it even when I was with the company. I put myself at risk for being sued myself at the time"

So I guess his past claims that PokerStar's stiffing SNE players was just a "miscommunication" was itself a miscommunication.

And people still wonder why he is despised by poker players.

I haven't listened to the podcast, but isn't this true? I recall DN was vocally against many of the sudden changes to the SNE program. He supported the changes if implemented the following year, but not the immediately upcoming year.

Right and he said his resignation was on the line if the changes went through and they did. He then spun it that he could fight this better from the inside then out, or something equally dumb. He tried to save face among fellow pros but was never going to leave Stars over it.

Doesn't mean he defended it though...

Sure, he knew the removal of SNE during the year was flat out wrong and privately shared with other pros his intention to leave the company over it. Instead, he decided to continue to be paid by the same company to represent and defend their actions moving forward (the core function of what he was paid for as an ambassador).

One would think to continue to shill for the same company may be defending 'some' of their current decisions.

His best line when called out for not resigning, "I didn't lie! I changed my mind!"

not a fan of dneg but iirc he wasn't happy with the way stars handled the whole thing.

this sounds like trump derangement syndrome.

Didn't stop him from repeating PokerStar's lie that the SNE thievery was a communication error. Also didn't stop him from staying on and collecting his reported $3M/year sponsorship. His actions said everything we need to know - his words mean nothing.

Yeah I bet you would turn down 3 mill a year if it was you.

The "if I didn't take the money someone else would have" defense. I'm also not a poker pro who spent his entire career putting himself on an ethical pedestal and calling out and cancelling others he saw doing similar things.

Are you trying to tell me poker players are ethical or generally care about ethics?

I could make a list of all your fav fanboys and how they all did shady s*** except a handful, and even those handful have probably done shady things we aren’t aware of.

It’s the profession of trying to make others broke afterall.