Quote:
I'll ask this one question to the OP. Do some players have an edge over the average player?

Ignorance proven. End of thread.

Sidecar I diagree with your post but i respect your concept. Investing a pure form of risk and reward becomes gambling when you treat it that way. When you speculate its almost impossible to make a living, the same thing with poker.Poker becomes a "gamble" when your a bad player or a non skill player. In the long term that will never last though the best player will win and that not a gamble.

Born Munson you nailed it right on the head.. its pretty rediculus with punks like this who try to hold their ground when they know how rediculus they are.

It is not easy to make a living from poker you better get a job.

I have no idea and neither does he.

I am not saying there is zero learning curve once the basic rules are mastered, I am saying poker players tend to inflate the amount of skill that is needed in poker and also stress that there is no skill plateau, as if it keeps on going and going. But it doesn't. People stress evolution in poker because it oils the industry wheels, sites like cardrunners etc.

LOOK AT THIS THREAD

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...295&highlight=

THIS IS THE SAME **** HE ALWAYS DOES. TAKES A ******ED POSITION ABOUT POKER PLAERS. NO ONE AGREES WITH HIM. BUT EVERYONE KEEPS REPLYING TO TELL HIM HE'S A DUMBASS AND HE KEEPS REPLYING TO 'RESPOND' SO THE THREAD GROWS AND GROWS

HE'S NOT LISTENING TO ANYTHING. STOP FEEDING THE ****ING TROLL.

5 words. Ever thought of writing a book?

it's better to be succinct than a long-winded dumbass

wow, red. Urgent.

If what you are saying is true nobody in this thread would have agreed with me which they have. I am not trolling. This is propaganda to get me banned for having an opinion. But its ok for people to come in here and tell other people to kill themselves?

I agree, brevity is the soul of wit, but you are acting like I wrote reams upon reams here when that is clearly not the case.

+1

Um, to be a pro, you have to have no other icome. So yeah you could be ahimeless pro, but you don't juet get to say it.

skill level plateaus in poker as in any game. its at this point that many people become deluded into thinking that there is no higher level of skill to be obtained (which is perfectly natural considering the sudden change in pace of learning) and will tend to blame their failures (however relative they are) on luck/misfortune. the knowledgeable (not ignorant) person will realize that this plateau exists and will be able to better sense the differences (because of the plateaus they ARE very hard to sense) between him/her and someone that is truly better than them at the game. i have a friend whos really freaking good at CS and its hard for someone like me to imagine that there are people out there that could own him, but he tells me constantly that the pros are much much better than him (he has played with them)

No exam, no skillset, no qualifications. The fact that poker pros can turn pro whenever they want is a perfect illustration of the deluded nature of the game and the poker ego at work. Denial springs to mind. I'm gonna go down to wimbledon this summer, try and get a game on the account that I am a pro because my new donnay racket was 120 pounds.

+10

It does not keep going and going. Sorry. There is a finite amount of moves in poker, a finite amount of ways you can "mix it up", a finite amount of hands you can be dealt and a finite amount of decisions you can make.

Brittesential their are no qualifications in becoming a stock picker, I could stop everything now and say that. But guess what just like in poker you have to be good. I could make billions like Warren Buffet because my talent took me their or I could end of like most of the people who dont make it and whine about it. Not everybody makes it, its part of the challenge in doing something that you love doing. Just because your bad or didn't make it, how could you dare take the respect out of the everyday pro makeing a living for something other than himself. Your pathetic and you make me sick of your bull.

because PEOPLE play the game, there is essentially an infinite amount of situations and thus an infinite amount of learning to do

i could suddenly bet all my chips into a dead pot on a board of numerous implications , stand up, pick my chair up and balance it on my head, and shotgun a beer all while singing mary had a little lamb. you would likely have no idea what to think

I'd be very very surprised if Britessential's entire existence was not a level.

This thread is stupid. Did Michael Jordan make every shot and win every game? No. But over the long term he did those things more than others. Poker skill is based on math, not tilting, proper bankroll management, and putting people on hand ranges. Over the long term the people who do that more accurately than others will be the winners. All about having that edge like everything else in life. I don't see how that isn't skill. Everything in life can be considered a gamble and there's luck in pretty much everything. Also, everything in life is about numbers and statistics. Poker is no different.

Yeah it's pretty much impossible to be a winning player and think your playing perfectly, maybe play more poker?

you miss the point. A lot of players 'call hands' that only a psychic ability could make them correct, that is how I know they got lucky and skill didn't even come into it. Yet observers are not quick to think ahh, lucky guess?? The truth is quite a lot of occurences in poker happen on a "blind side", meaning a lot of the time you have no idea if you are ahead of behind in a hand. Given this theory, it is easy to see how it exposes a poker players said ability, or the feigning of said ability. Poker players take a little too much credit sometimes.

Most players "at a push" would consider it gambling, but most would always say that their 'skill' will always negate or offset the gambling element, as if they are no longer gambling.

I am not going to sit here and argue with you about whether the biggest winnes are smart or not smart. I am not saying poker is ALL luck, I am saying it is about 70% to 80% luck and the skill elemnt of poker is hugely overamplified.

Yes, but nowhere near to the extent that people make out. For example, if Gus Hansen took 15 years away from poker, and came back and played Daniel Negreanu (who had continually played in that time) I do not think Daniel would have a gret edge because Gus has learnt most of what he needs to know to be a pretty good player for life. This goes back to my point about poker being a "finite structure game".

you are right, it isn't really an argument. Games change, but they only change to an extent. People change, too, from hand to hand, people make different moves for different reasons. Poker is about deception, its about tricking your opponent into doing something that he/she would not do if they knew what all the cards were [skalansky, the theory of poker]. But I mean there is still only so many options. For example you can choose to bluff or perhaps reverse-psychology, bluff, but your options are limited, by the rules of the system [game].

I think the argument that a "fold last year would be a call today" is utterly unfounded an is quite a sensationalist claim from a person who thinks the poker game has "moved on sooo much". The truth is, it only has commercially. And the longer it stays that way the better [for some].

This doesn't make much sense mainly for suubjective/and situational reasons, i.e. it makes claims about general trends in the game that it cannot back up adequately.

Ok capt, we can safely say that a person who goes all in 50 times in a row wants to gamble, but I am not talking about that. I am talking about when a player calls down with second pair on a dangerous board and win and their opponent is like "how could u do that?????" i.e. more sophisticated plays than continual all-ins.

bob, you have the best location on this forum. im jealous

The big winners in poker are not lucky but have a deeper understanding of where the money comes from in poker.

They are able to pick up more information in a quicker amount of time about their opponents and know how to apply it to predict their opponents behaviors and choose the most profitable lines.

Big winners and the OP are basically playing a different game which is why OP believes what he does..