Good work TT

Maybe ridiculous was too strong a word, but in your example if Isildur wins he has done nothing wrong so of course there should be no refund.

If BH wins we don't know if he is aware of the datamining or not so more information is needed to determine what should happen from his point of view. It's pretty obvious though that BT had a piece of BH's action here, so if BH wins and there is no refund at all then BT profits from his datamining which is wrong (as stated in your example).

The two situations (which player wins) are totally different and can't be compared when determining what should happen.

todd terry ftw, that some nice investigation skills. this is what i expect ftp to come up with but obv they are trying to cover up the truth. I mean when brian townsend got busted with multiaccounting they let him know first than the public so he can admit it to the public looking less innocent.

bling blang blaow

Even if this is true, I simply do not understand the moral outrage. Using available information to form a strategy to win money is what poker is all about. This is what high stakes players do. Clearly they got info that under FT's T&C they should not have had, but even if they conglomerated & shared the database, I think FT should give BH & CTS the same punishment that BT got.

I think BT playing under a different name and winning money from people who normally would not have played him is a far, far worse offense than what these guys are currently accused of and I think most players would agree with that. The furor is mostly because of the amount of $$ involved. .

I agree with that completely FWIW. He should have been perma-banned from FTP and kicked out of CardRunners for playing under a different name, I said that at the time.

If FT has banned the player for a month, are they not admiting a violation of T@C? Seems if Isildur wants some $$ back he is entitled. Cheating is cheating.

you railbird's are still talking about this..lol. You need to get a f###ing life children

It's pretty clear what happend and it's pretty clear because young and very life-inexperienced Hastings cought in some lol post-winning euphoria spilled the beans on his blog and ESPN.
After reading chats from Isildur1 vs Hastings match,Hasting's blog and ESPN interview (not going to link them here because they are all posted linked in this thread many times) anyone with half a brain comes to conclusions that:

Townsend, Hastings and South had shares of eachother in their 'bust Isildur' quest.
They gathered all HHs they had on him including at least 30k (we'll never know the real ammount) illegaly datamined or bought HHs by Townsend.
Then Townsend analized these HHs and made reports and charts about all of Isildur's ranges in different situations.
It's pretty clear that all three of them made use of these range charts while playing Isildur.
Sounds like a clear case of collusion to me.

The problem is that while it's obvious to any non-******ed or even semi-******ed person that collusion happend the only thing that can be proven is the illegal aquiring of HHs and not surprisingly it's the only thing Townsend admited to heh.

Well, they might keep the 4mill but I would like to see who will be the clueless idiot that will give any online action to any of these CardScummers colluders ever again.
In the end it will be their loss.

Todd, I pointed out in an earlier post that BH and CTS had played about 30k hands against Isildur which seemed a coincidence. I also pointed out though that other players (e.g. PA, Ziigmund, etc) had played significant numbers of hands against him too so it is possible BT datamined multiple matches to get the 30k hands. I find it quite intriguing though that he used the terminology 'I acquired another 30k hands' rather than that he datamined them, but I suppose that could refer to purchasing them from PTR, for example.

With regard to BH mentioning the 50k hands on the podcast, it is quite possible that BT told him he had a database of 50k hands on him without mentioning how he got that database. However, you posted that he said: "I know that he [Townsend] analyzed a database of like, 50,000 headsup hands that isildur played ..." - what was the rest of this sentence?

Hi I have scanned this thread but it is so big could someone tell me if there has been any official responses from Full Tilt or any of the players involved thanks.

Once again I will say that without a doubt there is no conglomerated hand database. I and only I have my bulk personal hand histories, I have not sent these to anyone. Additionally, I have not received their hand histories and so there is no person in possession of all of our private hand histories.

Cole are you 100% comfortable with how this win against isildur1 was obtained?

+1

Yeah, you did, I just looked back and found your post. I hadn't seen your post prior to writing mine. You scooped me.

The rest of the sentence is included in the Gary Wise article IIRC. It's part of the paragraph that starts with Hastings giving Townsend credit for the win.

Hi.
Did you ever recieve Isildur's PLO ranges chart or anything similar from Townsend?

No scoop from me, I was half-joking when I made that original post. I still don't know what to make of all this really. I guess it would help if BT would reveal where he got the hands from. Does anyone know if it is possible to buy a specific players hands on PTR?

Ok, I've seen the rest of the sentence now. I find the phraseology interesting, i.e. 'heads up hands that Isildur had played' rather than 'heads up hands that he had played with Isildur' but I could easily be reading too much into things there.

This thread is so ******ed.

When i saw the title originally i didn't bother to open it because i presumed it would be deleted shortly for being so ******ed.

I cant believe it has 2200 replies lol

That's because cheating happened, was admited and FTP issued punishments...etc.
You might wanna start reading it heh, I suggest starting from post 1300 or so,it's where FTP posted about their 'investigation' on the mater.

+1

I'd have to agree. This says volumes about a man's character resorting to deceptive measures. There are some infractions that simply cannot be forgiven and this is one of them. One compromise leads to another and the integrity of the industry suffers as a result.

Unfortunately, there are too many degenerates who will continue to fuel this machine, so FT will just hand out "minor" infractions and hope this story fades away with time. Forums like this and the diligent efforts of those who understand how damaging just one compromise is to this game are FT's biggest nemesis at this juncture.

I think my opinion might be a little biased here so I will spare you, but here are posts from other high stakes players in the past few days:

Who will be the next guy to play these guys?

What really boggles my mind is that getting caught for cheating either makes you

a) stupid (Which we all know brian isnt)
b) someone whose morals down the drain from all the evenings of MA'ing and datamining/angleshooting so he eventually is sloppy enough to get caught


I'd go for b)....... TWICE. That is ****ing scary, not even the most moronic bitch gets caught for shoplifting twice in close proximity if shes not a ****ing junkie.


edit: Originally Posted by durrrr
im sure isildur and martonas talked about ppl a lot too and maybe swapped some hh's... i dont have any issue w/ what the c/r guys did- and if one person would be biased against them itd be me since it was effectively all my $$ stinger won =( <--- Not true, it was a loan from Guy.

this is stoooopid. if its a rule its a rule. if punishments are handed out obviously its because a RULE was broken.

I could find 10000 ppl walking the street that dont think theres anything wrong with say going 10 mph over the speed limit... that wouldnt make it any less wrong if I get caught doing it even tho we all do.