My point is that everybody talks about the prevention of the spread, as opposed to doing things to boost our health. Both things should be done to fight corona, but only one is getting all of the attention. The sauna and steam rooms are pretty bad places to start I admit, diet and exercise in general would be much better examples.

when i say diet I mean do things like make it a point to consume more Vitamin C, not that everyone should pick now to go on a weight loss regimen

Haha PTLou gettin' hot under that collar.

Okay, I can give him a very, very slight pass on the steam: I think his post largely addresses the confusion over why there is no focus on things that make us healthier when it comes to disease prevention. In other words, it's not all about his getting a steam, but rather it was just an example of one healthy activity getting curbed.

Of course, I say "slight" pass. Sure, plenty of studies indicate a sauna's benefit on cardiorespiratory fitness, white blood cell counts, cortisol levels. However, there are plenty of activities that are good for health and wellness but that have a lower risk of transmitting a disease. If I have my choice between taking a walk through a mostly empty greenbelt around my neighborhood vs. swimming laps in a small natatorium, from a COVID-transmission perspective, the former is the better choice.

As for diet, it's probably not often mentioned specifically in relation to COVID because there is no evidence that any particular foods or nutrients has any significant effect in preventing that particular disease. Still, any thinking person should still be maintaining a good diet simply because it's better for you overall.

That said, the World Health Organization still offers COVID-related dietary advice here and here. Kathleen K. Adams, et al published this article examining the efficacies (or lack thereof) of certain supplements claimed to help in the prevention or treatment of COVID. And this early blog post from the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health discusses the role of diet and nutritional supplements during the pandemic.

Is that much to run with? No. Is it more than "no talk from anyone?" Absolutely.

Finally, I give no pass to this:

How is that "the only focus?" If anything, it's one of about four points of emphasis placed upon the average Joe citizen every day, along with social distancing, proper hygiene, and staying at home whenever possible. In fact, you could argue that wearing a mask ranks low just on that short list – after all, if you kept your distance from others or you never left the house, you could realistically get away with never wearing a mask.

Anyway, I hope that's a more "reasoned" and "factual" response. After all, I do share some of that poster's frustrations with the inconsistent policies in place during the past three months. I could cite a number of examples just in my home county, but this post is long enough.

Sure, if it weren't for the fact that in most jurisdictions I've seen where they've compared the "normal" amount of deaths over the last few months with the actual number from this year, the difference usually exceeds, and in many places far exceeds, the number attributed to Covid, which would seem to indicate Covid deaths are being under-reported rather than over-reported. Now, if you have a jurisdiction where the opposite is happening, I think it makes sense to raise such questions.

That's because we're now in the middle of a pandemic, and preventing the spread is their top priority, as it's going to make the biggest short-term difference, by far. Or long-term, when it comes to this particular virus.

One of the problems with shutting things down again. .. Is to what end? Just to wait for cases to start dropping again, only to reopen and have things spike even worse in three months when the weather starts getting cooler again? Or are we waiting and praying for an effective vaccine? That is seeming less and less likely. In the start most laymens assumed with unlimited funds being poured into a vaccine and the best in the world working all around the world a good vaccine was inevitable. The more time passes it seems less and less likely for a cure (ala-measles) and more of just a hope for a semi-useful vaccine (the flu). Where it is somewhat effective but people still get it every year and it is still very much around (40k deaths per year) decades after a vaccine.

It seems reopening things kind of did what could have been predicted from the start. We aren't leaning many new things about the virus in the last few months. Most of the hypothesis are just being reinforced by the reopenings

* it's very contagious, more then the flu it seems. not sure if it's smaller droplets or longer life in air .
* Seems to be much much more contagious with continued exposure. Going in and out of stores, other public places fine. People go in and out of places all the time , mask or no mask very few outbreaks. However , sit them in a bar for a few hours in those same conditions, half the bar gets Covid. Same thing with workplaces, meat factories etc, even with a mask outbreaks are common with constant exposure to it. Assisted care facilities. etc

* doesn't have much effect on younger people. For children essentially zero statistically speaking. Apparently they don't transmit it effectively either. 18-40 again not a big deal the large majority of the time. When it's all said and done with more and more data chances are the mortality rate will be very close to the common flu.

Nobody likes the case numbers skyrocketing. People were hoping it what kind of just go away and weaken to nothingness. That just didn't happen. It's back. I wouldn't say badder then ever because now we know it's not nearly as deadly as first thought.

So whats next?

Shut things down again?

Keep the elderly and vulnerable locked away a year and tell the younger generation to live their lives, go to concerts, etc just stay away from the vulnerable. Until we reach herd immunity?

The question is why reopening in the US had really bad consequences while reopening in Europe has been working out pretty well.

Obviously, something went horribly wrong here. Maybe it was opening up too soon, maybe it was throwing all caution out of the window once stuff reopened. Or maybe it was something totally different, I have no idea.

I can think of a couple of reasons. In states where their hospitals and/or ICU beds are at or close to capacity, they need to flatten the curve again...or finally. And in states where they opened before they were able to effectively test and contact trace, they may want to rethink that and buy themselves some time.

OK, I'm no expert (LDO), but I don't see any reason to think it's less likely now than a few months ago. Everything I've hear always indicated that once vaccine was developed, proper testing would take several months at a minimum. I've heard of no realistic scenario presented where we would have been close to a vaccine this soon. So I don't think there being nothing yet means a thing. Maybe a year from now, I'd agree that the longer it goes the less likely it seems, but not yet.

I think that's all they've ever been hoping for, but with the addition that Covid mutates less rapidly than the flu, so a vaccine would be less of a crap shoot and more effective for a longer time. But I'm way out of my depth on this topic, so it would be great if someone more knowledgeable could weigh in.

A minor FYP, just because I'd think we'd be the country most likely to have similar outcomes, yet we aren't. So I'd agree with the overall point, that something has gone wrong - probably multiple things. Lack of a proper science-based plan strikes me as the biggest one in many states.

Bobo,

Correct. Americans are generally selfish, ignorant, and dont believe in science. I thought this before but if covid has done anything it has confirmed this for me.

lol yes. But thanks to @Nozsr I have turned over a new leaf. No more being mean. I just want to help people understand some things more better.

Foe example most of me wants to respond to any of @zrap's posts and let him know his brain is comprised mostly of mushed bananas.

But the new and improved me wont do that.

edit:

just saw this.

Though @vincent seems like a very bright and personable young lad perhaps he should google stereotype so he can understand the problem with with his post more better

You are right, there was never supposed to be a vaccine this soon. It still looks like late this year or early next year. It just seems like the "experts" are kind of covering their tracks lately and hinting that while there should be a vaccine in that time frame they can't say how well it will work. It seems they are tempering expectations on what a vaccine will do.

It's probably just going to play itself out. Just like Florida and Texas kind of learned, without strict restrictions the virus is going to spread.

Same goes for the PA, NY, NYC governors who praise their own efforts and low numbers. They only reason for the low numbers was the strict lockdowns and super slow reopenings. As soon as they open up more , cases will increase in those states too.

Not all "openings" are the same. Lets use a casino example.

Casinos in AZ opened the doors to any and all. There were lines out the door. Places were packed.... Bad way to open.

Harrahs Cherokee did invite only events and carefully controlled crowds... Good way to open.

Opening our communities can be done in a responsible way with testing / contract tracing etc , not allowing pure stupid things like wall to wall packed bars and such.

Your assertion that closings were wasteful and not needed as we just delayed the inevitable is perhaps something you should think more about.

Yikes, Nevada is the highest.
https://rt.live/

These states can be as careful as they want. The biggest problem is going to be policing Americans. As much as the media might try to scare everyone. The gig is up as far as anyone under 40 being afraid of catching this virus.

That is why despite seeing the surge in cases related to bars most notably. If they reopened next week they would be packed again. It's not that those 21-35 year olds are all stupid, many of college kids who I'm sure are quite smart. It's that they aren't afraid of catching it. I'm sure they are aware of the risk, it would be impossible not too at this point.

Are they selfish? Maybe ... it would obviously be super selfish and reckless to spend the night at the bar then two days later go visit their grandparents thinking because they don't feel sick, they are fine. Now that would be pretty bad. If they think I'm going to head to Florida to party for a week then keep to myself back home for a week... not so bad. imo

Lots of these younger adults would go to the bar without a mask even if they knew there were some customers who have Covid there.




Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Especially the fear mongering news. Remember this virus all but disappeared from the major news networks last month when all the riots were going down. Now after the riots are old news it's suddenly back to the virus 24/7. Lucky enough for them it's spiking at the right time, but mainly just cases and not the deaths.

I'm sure deaths will rise to, but not nearly in proportion to cases since it is younger people who are the ones out pushing the case #'s so much higher.

Hospitalizations are up too but that is also not nearly as bad as before as the average stay is now half what it was 2-3 months ago.

As far as hospitals being over run, you have to look into the details. The headlines will try to exaggerate Covid. Like in Houston pretty much the epicenter last week. I kept hearing hospital ICU's were reaching capacity!! Then it turned out they were at 70% non-covid and 30% Covid related. It didn't say that in the headlines. Sure they were at 100% capacity, but they tryed to make it sound like NYC 3 months ago were it was overloaded with Covid.

I've noticed the same thing. Whether that's because they're worried that people aren't taking things seriously any more and are all saying "**** it, we'll just open 'er up and ride it out until the vaccine fixes everything in 6 months", or because they truly aren't feeling confident about vaccines, I couldn't say. I hope it's the former, but clearly there's a non-zero chance that a vaccine could be much longer coming or less of a solution than many are counting on.

I've been trying to avoid coming back to my own province continually, but it provides far too good an example here to pass up.

Nevada population - 3 million
BC population - 5 million

Nevada began reopening May 9, BC on May 19

Nevada's current 7 day new case average - 637
BC's current 7 day new case average - 12 (1 or 2 total deaths in the last week)

We've reopened slowly, but are now a week into our last phase before there's a vaccine or treatment available. Schools reopened on June 1, on a voluntary basis (on summer break now). There's not a whole lot that isn't able to open at this point, but most sectors have strict rules about how they can reopen, distancing requirements, etc. There is no overall mask requirement, and the only mask recommendation from the government is to wear one if you're indoors and can't distance appropriately. And yet, here we are.

Now, could it be that we've just delayed all of our cases and will have a huge spike in the fall? Perhaps. But at this point, I'm inclined to believe that there are right ways and wrong ways to do this. We've had a lot of luck here, but I also think it's been managed really, really well. And this isn't the only place where that's the case; I just use it as it's an example I know first hand.

Wait, what? Who cares why they're full? Full is full. This is exactly why health officials have been working hard to flatten the curve. People still get sick with other things, have accidents, get shot, whatever else brings them into ICU normally, and then you drop Covid on top, you have a potential problem.

But this points out another reason why a state might consider shutting down again - they realize they don't have sufficient ICU capacity, and need to create more before reopening again.

You do realize the media is not the enemy here.

In many places, that is exactly where they are headed. Im not going to judge you or question WHY you have so much disdain for the media, but maybe you are letting your distrust of the them cloud your judgement.

Occasionally when the media says its gonna rain... they have no agenda, other than to simply let you know its gonna rain.

Actually in many Europe countries rigid restrictions are still in order even though numbers are steadily decreasing.

They have to be pretty stupid if they think their biggest risk is getting sick.

If you're in college right now or are still relatively new to the workforce, your biggest personal risk by far is the tanking economy. That's what they should be worried about. Delaying the economical recovery by making stupid decisions that put others in harms way. Shouldn't be news to anyone, but the pandemic made us painfully aware of the fact that the US is much more dependent on the service industry than any other major western country. One college student spreading the virus might result in 100 older adults not going out to dine or shop.

Why stop at 200,000? Heading towards 1 million.

This is just fake news. Look at the CDC excess deaths charts and it's about 100k in the US -- regardless of cause, something has caused more people to die than usual. Even a complete skeptic/conspiracy theorist has to admit that. Unless states are just printing fake death certificates to alleviate the toilet paper shortage.

The media is just a bunch of people that couldn't get real jobs or didn't want to.

What if the biggest risk is that the government can declare a health emergency and order you to shut down your life? Obesity is a serious health risk. McDonalds shall no longer be allowed to operate within our borders. If your BMI is > 30.0 you need to get to our camp where we will provide proper food and shelter until this is over. some would declare racism a health emergency. Who decides what restrictions are necessary and sufficient to address the situation?

Of course the government would only do this for something super serious; they would never overreach; they have your best interest at heart and are working tirelessly to protect you.

In your opinion, what is the motivation for the govt in wanting to shut down your life?

1) They are bored and have nothing else to do?

2) While we are tucked away in our homes and not watching, they can finally clean up Area 51 of all the alien bodies and spacecraft?


3) Something else?


p.s. and yeah totally agree with @madlex. The pending bubble of economic pain has barely even begun. The largest economy in the world, based largely on consumer demand cannot absorb 40M people losing their jobs virtually overnight.

Follow the money. This whole shitshow did not happen by chance, recessions are engineered.

Instead of doing some research though, people just want to call those who say such things conspiratards. Damn shame.

please continue this thought... I'm intrigued.

the tinfoil hats are out in the full force

scooped @parisron (again )

Card Clubs (among other many other venues) closing again in many CA counties.



Does not mention Tribal Casinos.

This.

Los Angels card clubs closing again.

Redonkulous!

I tried following the money, but I got confused when I learned that almost every country in the world is entering a recession, and the countries forecast to have the biggest reductions in GDP are those in Western Europe. Since this recession is going to be global (i.e. it will negatively affect every country on earth), I've come to the conclusion that it's been engineered by space aliens from another planet whom particularly hate the Spanish, French, Italians and Brits.

Source: OECD Economic Outlook.