Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

View Poll Results: Will the Corona Virus will alter their plans to attend WSOP this Summer (if it's not canceled)
Never planned on attending. 177 32.48%
Definitely wont attend. 112 20.55%
Probably wont attend. 93 17.06%
Probably will attend. 71 13.03%
Definitely will attend. 92 16.88%
Voters: 545. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-27-2020, 05:05 PM   #5301
Gzesh
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UTG
Posts: 4,707
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison View Post
Gibbons v Ogden speaks on the quarantine power of the state. A quote from the decision:

"[Inspection laws] form a portion of that immense mass of legislation which embraces everything within the territory of a State not surrendered to the General Government; all which can be most advantageously exercised by the States themselves. Inspection laws, quarantine laws, health laws of every description, as well as laws for regulating the internal commerce of a State, and those which respect turnpike roads, ferries, &c., are component parts of this mass."

This was not the main purpose of the case, but more of an illustration of a point. In Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur v. Louisiana State Board of
Health, a case more directly dealing with state quarantine powers, the Court said:

"That from an early day the power of the states to enact and enforce quarantine laws for the safety and the protection of the health of their inhabitants has been recognized by Congress, is beyond question. That until Congress has exercised its power on the subject, such state quarantine laws and state laws for the purpose of preventing, eradicating, or controlling the spread of contagious or infectious diseases, are not repugnant to the Constitution of the United States, although their operation affects interstate or foreign commerce, is not an open question."

It has always been considered the province of state government to protect public health. This is the exact sort of long-standing understanding of state powers that the Tenth Amendment was meant to cover.

This power extends to making people do things against their will. See, for example, Jacobson v. Massachusuetts, which upheld the constitutionality of compulsory vaccinations.

"The police power of a State embraces such reasonable regulations relating to matters completely within its territory, and not affecting the people of other States, established directly by legislative enactment, as will protect the public health and safety."

The quarantine power of the state should be considered settled at this point. We shouldn't be arguing about whether it is constitutional. A quarantine would not be constitutional if it were unreasonable and arbitrary, but I suspect that questioning medical experts would find a consensus that quarantining interstate travelers is a very reasonable measure if you want to stop the spread of COVID-19.
Thanks for the quote, I had not seen it when I looked through the case.

So, does your reading of the law lean toward saying that States can act unless or until Congress decides to occupy the field ? (Depending on the say, the Trump administration either agrees or conversely claims ONLY the federal government can order a quarantine.

We disagree that quarantining travelers based solely on their coming from certain states makes ANY medical sense, versus, say testing people .... something "medical experts" would likely support as the basis for any quarantine order or policy.

I think the quarantine all US citizens who simply cross the State line is clearly both unreasonable and arbitrary, which fails your test for constitutional infirmity..
Gzesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2020, 07:32 PM   #5302
BDHarrison
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Antifa
Posts: 3,657
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

States have generally been given leeway to police public health within their own borders. A nuanced view might be that states can quarantine anyone once they are inside the state, but the federal government has to be involved if you want to quarantine someone before they enter a state. The federal government can't abrogate the state power of quarantine, but there are overlapping powers. I would guess that one level of government can't undo what another has done, but can go farther, so states can't have less of a quarantine than whatever the federal government can do within its powers, but can have a stricter quarantine and the federal government can do more than states.

What is a quarantine? Quarantine is separating out people who might have been exposed to a contagious disease but don't have any symptoms to see if they become sick. Even if we tested people like you want, the idea should be that we would at least quarantine people until test results are known. The idea is that we don't know if you are sick, so we are going to treat you like you are until we know better. A quarantine is not something we only do to sick people. Anyone who says you should only quarantine people if they are sick doesn't know what they are talking about.

Given that this is a novel virus that we don't know about and that its spread has been linked to asymptomatic spreaders, it is reasonable to err on the side of caution.
BDHarrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2020, 07:50 PM   #5303
parisron
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
parisron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,338
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

parisron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2020, 10:53 PM   #5304
EastCoastBalla
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 623
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by parisron View Post
Gotta think after these final tables finish up the WPT won't be continuing this practice anymore. With covid19 now, why put extra crew and staff members potentially at risk to basically shutdown a tournament 6 handed and resume it later in a different arena. I don't know I can't see this happening again.
EastCoastBalla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 04:15 PM   #5305
parisron
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
parisron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,338
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

6 handed tournaments can run but not really 4 handed.

parisron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 05:11 PM   #5306
parisron
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
parisron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,338
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

For those asking how you can drink with a mask on

parisron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 07:59 PM   #5307
parisron
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
parisron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,338
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

The only confirmed poker so far is Venetian and The Orleans.


Last edited by parisron; 05-28-2020 at 08:09 PM.
parisron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 08:46 PM   #5308
EastCoastBalla
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 623
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by parisron View Post
The only confirmed poker so far is Venetian and The Orleans.

I guess that gaming control board meeting went nowhere with the multiple requests for 6 handed. Can't blame most poker rooms to stay shutdown. I wonder if 6 max was allowed if Bellagio and Wynn would reopen their rooms.
EastCoastBalla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 08:52 PM   #5309
parisron
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
parisron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,338
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

At least it read into the record and is something for them to think about maybe for when phase 3 hits. Maybe it might only be 2 weeks and they could go 6 max.
parisron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 10:36 PM   #5310
lefty rosen
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,769
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by parisron View Post
At least it read into the record and is something for them to think about maybe for when phase 3 hits. Maybe it might only be 2 weeks and they could go 6 max.
The gray market game in Austin has players without masks sitting beside each other, this was rather quick. I know sickos tend to play in these games but this is too much even for that crowd........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KZqU7Nu_i4
lefty rosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2020, 10:49 PM   #5311
WateryBoil
Pooh-Bah
 
WateryBoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: And mine are long and sharp my Lord
Posts: 5,498
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

its almost like the threat is minimal or something to anyone healthy....

WateryBoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2020, 04:35 PM   #5312
parisron
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
parisron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,338
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

parisron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2020, 04:45 PM   #5313
Carl Trooper
veteran
 
Carl Trooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,367
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Sweet. Let’s get this moving. Wsop fall 2020 let’s goooo
Carl Trooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2020, 05:04 PM   #5314
pocket_zeros
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,182
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastBalla View Post
I guess that gaming control board meeting went nowhere with the multiple requests for 6 handed. Can't blame most poker rooms to stay shutdown. I wonder if 6 max was allowed if Bellagio and Wynn would reopen their rooms.
The city is not about to risk the bad press of having photos and video of a bunch of poker players sitting close to each other broadcast around the country, esp since poker is one of the least profitable aspects of the gaming business.
pocket_zeros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2020, 05:52 PM   #5315
PTLou
Jellybean
 
PTLou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 4,759
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

https://vegasadvantage.com/las-vegas...g-status-list/

Quote:
Venetian will offer $100 four-player winner-take-all no limit Hold’em sit and gos
that's actually pretty smart. I think recs would be much more likely to play one of those vs 4 handed cash game, and then maybe be more likely to try 4 handed cash.

Sheldon is a genius

Last edited by PTLou; 05-29-2020 at 05:58 PM.
PTLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2020, 10:35 PM   #5316
News777
grinder
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 691
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by parisron View Post
The degen factor is so strong that people will return under any conditions. However once the novelty wears off and people tire of playing between plexiglass dividers, having to inhale disinfectant all day and eating with disposable utensils in gourmet restaurants business will fall off. A big factor going to Las Vegas is socializing with friends and family. Celebrating at a blackjack or craps table when you win a big hand or have a big run. It's going to be missing. The shows and the nightclubs are temporarily gone.

Plenty of addictive video poker and slot players to keep the local casinos going. Remember many of these people park their shopping cart full of groceries at a Smith's or Von's bank of video poker machines. The virus will not stop those people. It's like an opioid fix.
News777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2020, 12:47 AM   #5317
Gzesh
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UTG
Posts: 4,707
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by News777 View Post
The degen factor is so strong that people will return under any conditions. However once the novelty wears off and people tire of playing between plexiglass dividers, having to inhale disinfectant all day and eating with disposable utensils in gourmet restaurants business will fall off. A big factor going to Las Vegas is socializing with friends and family. Celebrating at a blackjack or craps table when you win a big hand or have a big run. It's going to be missing. The shows and the nightclubs are temporarily gone.

Plenty of addictive video poker and slot players to keep the local casinos going. Remember many of these people park their shopping cart full of groceries at a Smith's or Von's bank of video poker machines. The virus will not stop those people. It's like an opioid fix.
Sadly, eventually, it probably will.
Gzesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2020, 01:23 AM   #5318
EastCoastBalla
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 623
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Yeah imo if poker was a real money maker for the casinos I think you would see a real push from lobbying, casino executives etc... to get 6 max the standard now. But as many have noted, poker doesn't make any kind of real money for the casinos and they might be kind of glad it's 4 max for the forseeable future in Vegas so they don't have to open. My gut tells me there aren't too many casino executives shedding tears their particular poker room won't open for awhile.
EastCoastBalla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2020, 02:26 AM   #5319
Mister E.
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nowhere and everywhere all at once
Posts: 219
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
Sadly, eventually, it probably will.
You must like chasing a lot of bad draws.
Mister E. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2020, 03:20 AM   #5320
Escapologist
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 155
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLou View Post
https://vegasadvantage.com/las-vegas...g-status-list/

Venetian will offer $100 four-player winner-take-all no limit Hold’em sit and gos

that's actually pretty smart. I think recs would be much more likely to play one of those vs 4 handed cash game, and then maybe be more likely to try 4 handed cash.

Sheldon is a genius
I hate this idea because you'll probably start with ten big blinds then pros following push/fold charts will play these all day and it will be no fun.

Also at a four-handed cash game if I realize there's a very strong player at the table I can pick up my money and leave, but for a sit-and-go my money is already committed from the start.

I hope they will also offer cash games.
Escapologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2020, 11:13 AM   #5321
NickMPK
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,750
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Escapologist View Post
I hate this idea because you'll probably start with ten big blinds then pros following push/fold charts will play these all day and it will be no fun.

Also at a four-handed cash game if I realize there's a very strong player at the table I can pick up my money and leave, but for a sit-and-go my money is already committed from the start.

I hope they will also offer cash games.
It’s hard for me to imagine these will be profitable for pros if they only cost $100. They will probably just be rake traps in which no one is significantly +EV. I can see them being fun, but only potentially profitable at a higher price point with a reasonable rake. One if the reasons the SNGs are so uniquely successful at the WSOP is that they run at all buy-in levels, with the same absolute rake regardless of buy-in.
NickMPK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2020, 12:03 PM   #5322
Escapologist
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 155
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
... One if the reasons the SNGs are so uniquely successful at the WSOP is that they run at all buy-in levels, with the same absolute rake regardless of buy-in.
Not true, have you seen the 2019 WSOP SNG structure sheets? Higher buyins had less rake.
Escapologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2020, 12:12 PM   #5323
Escapologist
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 155
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
It’s hard for me to imagine these will be profitable for pros if they only cost $100. They will probably just be rake traps in which no one is significantly +EV. I can see them being fun, but only potentially profitable at a higher price point with a reasonable rake. One if the reasons the SNGs are so uniquely successful at the WSOP is that they run at all buy-in levels, with the same absolute rake regardless of buy-in.
Daily tournaments are rake traps too but a lot of pros still try to make a profit in them.

Most recs such as me consider $100 a pretty big buy-in for a tournament. I would definitely play a $40 four-handed SNG over a $100 one. But then even more people wouldn't take it as seriously and the whole thing would just be push/fold flips (which still might be fun if it's only $40).

The point is people want to play real poker and you can't do that at a four-handed sng because pros will just make it about push/fold chart flips.

And if it's going to be that way it's not like real poker and you might as well have some insane structure like all-in every hand or all bomb pots.
Escapologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2020, 12:27 PM   #5324
akashenk
veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,372
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by News777 View Post
The degen factor is so strong that people will return under any conditions. However once the novelty wears off and people tire of playing between plexiglass dividers, having to inhale disinfectant all day and eating with disposable utensils in gourmet restaurants business will fall off. A big factor going to Las Vegas is socializing with friends and family. Celebrating at a blackjack or craps table when you win a big hand or have a big run. It's going to be missing. The shows and the nightclubs are temporarily gone. ...
I don't think these are as big a factor for poker players compared to general gamblers/tourists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastBalla View Post
Yeah imo if poker was a real money maker for the casinos I think you would see a real push from lobbying, casino executives etc... to get 6 max the standard now. But as many have noted, poker doesn't make any kind of real money for the casinos and they might be kind of glad it's 4 max for the forseeable future in Vegas so they don't have to open. My gut tells me there aren't too many casino executives shedding tears their particular poker room won't open for awhile.
Then they're being very short-sighted. Poker players = demand, and if a casino is struggling to build demand, this is more important than short term profits.
akashenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2020, 12:35 PM   #5325
PTLou
Jellybean
 
PTLou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 4,759
Re: Coronavirus has caused the postponement of the WSOP 2020! (Coronavirus quarantine thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Escapologist View Post

I hope they will also offer cash games.
article says they will have cash games too

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
It’s hard for me to imagine these will be profitable for pros if they only cost $100. They will probably just be rake traps in which no one is significantly +EV. I can see them being fun, but only potentially profitable at a higher price point with a reasonable rake. One if the reasons the SNGs are so uniquely successful at the WSOP is that they run at all buy-in levels, with the same absolute rake regardless of buy-in.
These are not designed for pros. Rooms know that pros/regs will play 2 handed 8 handed 16 handed.... anything to make a living as long as some recs are there. Yes they will be absolute rake traps. dealing a 4 hand SNG is a total money loser for the house thus the structure will be turbo forsure, maybe hyper turbo, but thats not the point.

Given 80% if the market is 1/2NLH where buyin is 100-$200. These SNGs are pricing in 80% of the market. pricing is perfect.


the goal here is to get recs to come out to the room and play. specifically play something 4 handed. I think there is a group of recs that will play 4 handed SNGs but not 4 handed cash. After playing one of those maybe they will be more likely to try 4 handed cash.

at this stage regs should be applauding and supporting ANY room that is opening and ANYTHING the room is doing to attract recs.

Last edited by PTLou; 05-30-2020 at 12:44 PM. Reason: oh welcome akashenk. bobo missed you.
PTLou is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online